PDGA Board of Director Elections

[PMantle]

It is no more serious than PMantle continuously attributing thoughts, actions, and opinions to people that he imagines that they say. If people think PMantle would speak about himself in the way those quotes indicate, well I guess that says more about him than anything.

When did this happen, exactly?

 

[gingerandhoney]

Why does it matter if it was knowingly? Is this kind of sexism bad? Women are clearly worse at disc golf than men, in aggregate. This is pretty much the foundation of the entire thread. In fact the main argument is that trans women suck equally as much as cis women. You yourself have advanced that argument.

No, that's not the foundation of this thread.
The foundation of this thread is that it is deemed unfair that trans women get to play in gender-based divisions, on the assumed fact that these trans women have inherited athletic advantages over cis women.

I am not saying trans women suck as much as cis women; I am saying that if Natalie indeed had all of that male advantage, she'd be winning every DGPT event double digits.

 

[Hampstead]

Yeah, I would have no clue what's discussed on 4chan.

The alt-right uses memes as an online radicalization tool. One of the best-known icons is Pepe the Frog, a meme co-opted by 4chan in 2008. Honkler resembles Pepe, but in a clown outfit. While Pepe has innocent uses, Honkler has explicit racist connotations and is alt-right, often used by neo-Nazis.
"Clown world" was a phrase used in the subculture from about 2015. Its users claim it simply means that the (Western) world is so "crazy" in its embrace of social justice politics (read: not racist) that the only people who could conceivably be running it are Jews clowns, hence "clown world". More plainly, this is a reaction to social change, showing disappointment that the real world doesn't work like Leave It to Beaver. In reality, countries without closed borders and which don't allow for the ethnic cleansing or genocide of minorities are "clown countries" because they don't embrace the policies of the Third Reich. The phrase started being heavily promoted on The Right Stuff's podcast "The Daily Shoah" in 2017.[3]

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Clown_World

 

[ChrisWoj]

When did this happen, exactly?

You've have attributed thoughts, actions, and opinions fairly constantly throughout this thread.

You've answered all of these questions in your head, and you hate yourself for the answers your brain provided.

The point is, you've reduced female to a costume to be worn.

Why do you hate women so much?

(while stated as a question, this above is truly an attribution of an opinion that has not been expressed)

Calling it those things, while it may make you feel better, ignores the issue that you refuse to discuss. You obviously are taking the position that reasonable minds cannot differ on it.

Your lack of support for women disc golfers is pretty sick actually.

Why do you hate female disc golfers?

(while stated as a question, this above is truly an attribution of an opinion that has not been expressed)

You just want to peddle hate here.

It's an outlet that allows you to be a hateful bigot, yet feel good about it in some sick way.

 

[biscoe]

If one or the other of you stops then this pissing match will be over and we can move on to the next one.

 

[ChrisWoj]

If one or the other of you stops then this pissing match will be over and we can move on to the next one.

His and my interactions are comprised of 4 total posts in the past few days, 3 from me and 1 from him. I don't think me-or-him stopping will end the discussion.

 

[Ahildy13]

This is almost assuredly not correct. It is like asking you mom about modern slang.

Weird how a 2 second google search would tell you that it is correct.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clown World

Don't be an idiot.

 

[Tinkles]

No, that's not the foundation of this thread.
The foundation of this thread is that it is deemed unfair that trans women get to play in gender-based divisions, on the assumed fact that these trans women have inherited athletic advantages over cis women.

I am not saying trans women suck as much as cis women; I am saying that if Natalie indeed had all of that male advantage, she'd be winning every DGPT event double digits.

This is a nonsense argument. Lia Thompson was ranked 500 and something in freestyle as a male but competes for wins and records post transition in female divisions. I can't beat Serena Williams in tennis. That does not mean that people who have undergone male puberty don't have an advantage. Your agenda is showing here and it does not appear to be based on science or facts.

 

[gingerandhoney]

I don't have an agenda here. And I didn't have an agenda here.

Me pointing out that looking at only one side of an obviously double-sided coin is not "having an agenda", it is "wanting to make sure the whole picture is visible prior to making assumptions based on seeing just the one side".

 

[Dingus]

Weird how a 2 second google search would tell you that it is correct.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Clown World

Don't be an idiot.

I had to scroll past many many competing definitions to reach the one proposed. On a barely credible source website.

Idiot :|

 

[chris deitzel]

Laura, I have only one question for you. And the answer will require a serious conversation with yourself. But I am very curious of the answer.

Is it possible that living life as a male for 30+ years may have given you physical and even mental advantages over a woman who has never had that opportunity? Is it possible that all of those years being a man and treated as a man gives you a slight mental edge over those females who never had that opportunity to experience life as a male?

I totally understand that you are fully a woman now, but did having prior experience as a male give you any advantages over a female who never experienced that?

That's really the only question that matters in the discussion.

Congratulations on getting elected again.

 

[txmxer]

Laura, I have only one question for you. And the answer will require a serious conversation with yourself. But I am very curious of the answer.

Is it possible that living life as a male for 30+ years may have given you physical and even mental advantages over a woman who has never had that opportunity? Is it possible that all of those years being a man and treated as a man gives you a slight mental edge over those females who never had that opportunity to experience life as a male?

I totally understand that you are fully a woman now, but did having prior experience as a male give you any advantages over a female who never experienced that?

That's really the only question that matters in the discussion.

Congratulations on getting elected again.

asking about physical advantages is obvious.

Asking about mental advantages is a different ball game. Maybe you might want to reconsider your question?

I'll give you a for instance--a woman doesn't have the right mentality to be a leader (CEO, POTUS, etc.). These are all positions that people have taken over the years. By asking that question, you are applying the same logic to disc golf.

 

[Hampstead]

Anecdotal to be sure, but in my experience men are more prone to react emotionally when things don't go the way that they want them to. I can't say that being a male automatically gives one a mental edge over being a female. I'd like to think that we all have the ability to develop mental toughness over time depending on our experiences and how we process them.

 

[roblee]

.....

Asking about mental advantages is a different ball game. Maybe you might want to reconsider your question?......

Why might he do that? It's his question. Laura is quite capable of responding to or ignoring it herself.

 

[txmxer]

Why might he do that? It's his question. Laura is quite capable of responding to or ignoring it herself.

Why do you ask? I put the question in perspective. He can choose to respond or ignore it for himself, right?

 

[chris deitzel]

When I think of mental differences I'm referring more about the way men are treated vs women. It's pretty obvious that women are treated differently than men are so does that have any effect on the players mental abilities?

I don't mean if they are smarter. I'm just curious if being treated as a man for so many years, do they have different coping mechanisms or any other inherent advantages that a women who didn't have these experiences might have?

Same for the physical part. It's really the only thing that matters. If the answer is yes even if it's a doubtful yes or they don't want to admit yes, then something must change.

 

[chris deitzel]

asking about physical advantages is obvious.

Asking about mental advantages is a different ball game. Maybe you might want to reconsider your question?

I'll give you a for instance--a woman doesn't have the right mentality to be a leader (CEO, POTUS, etc.). These are all positions that people have taken over the years. By asking that question, you are applying the same logic to disc golf.

You really interpreted what I was trying to say wrong. I think women are superior to men actually. My lady proves it to me daily.

I just wonder if being treated as a male vs a female growing up has any sort of inherit advantages over someone who never had that experience. It's also a question that can't be answered by anyone other than someone who has gone through a transformation.

 

[jenb]

This is a nonsense argument. Lia Thompson was ranked 500 and something in freestyle as a male but competes for wins and records post transition in female divisions. I can't beat Serena Williams in tennis. That does not mean that people who have undergone male puberty don't have an advantage. Your agenda is showing here and it does not appear to be based on science or facts.

Lia Thompson was setting new records before she started estrogen. Her low ranking while competing as male in college was due to a loss of 30 seconds on her time as a result of taking estrogen and androgen blockers while having to wait a year before competing as a female.

 

[jenb]

I just wonder if being treated as a male vs a female growing up has any sort of inherit advantages over someone who never had that experience. It's also a question that can't be answered by anyone other than someone who has gone through a transformation.

Fun fact. When scientists developed the IQ Test it originally had random questions and those infernal women scored 35 points higher on average than men. The scientists realized that would be a huge barrier to acceptance of the test, so they started tracking which questions men and women did better on and weighted the test with questions s to cause each gender to average 100 IQ points. In doing so, the standard deviation and mean for women were rendered much smaller than for men, so the highest end and lowest end scores mostly go to men. Surely the same would not have occurred if men tended to score higher than women. Happily for the scientists, the early IQ tests were heavy in questions about yachting and tulip bulbs and other things the privileged, wealthy elite were more likely to answer correctly, so the skew was in favor of those people. The scientists didn't do anything about that, of course. Class and racial scoring differences continue today, and the highest scores still tend to go to men. Curiously, the average gay man has an IQ score of 125, and the average transwoman has an IQ score of 135.

 

[txmxer]

You really interpreted what I was trying to say wrong. I think women are superior to men actually. My lady proves it to me daily.

I just wonder if being treated as a male vs a female growing up has any sort of inherit advantages over someone who never had that experience. It's also a question that can't be answered by anyone other than someone who has gone through a transformation.

Your two statements clearly shows that I did not interpret what you were trying to say wrong.

I'm not trying to paint you in a corner or start something here. But, I do think your perspective on this question is off. I think if you really have significant conversations with women you will find the trials and tribulations that a female experiences to be just as significant and impactful as that of the average man. It would be nearly impossible to weigh ones experiences versus the others and how that would impact their performance in a sporting event.

Then there is the issue that you are asking about a specific persons experiences and asking them to make a value judgement on their experiences versus a group of people for whom they have no basis making a value judgement on how the individual experiences of the people in that group would impact their athletic performance.