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PDGA NT: 2019 Las Vegas Challenge
- Thread starter brutalbrutus
- Start date
Unless someone's made some enemies, foot faults generally don't start getting called until a pattern of ongoing faults emerges. Watch the other players. If they look unconcerned, nothing is likely to happen. If they start exchanging looks as if to say "are you seeing these too," and nodding or eye-rolling, a foot fault is likely imminent the next time it happens.
Not at all! This is the internet. I feel like you just need to learn about the **** sandwich method of constructive criticism.
The recipe is simple: The bread is good and the meat is the ****. Start and end your critique with a positive observation and put all the bad stuff in the middle and you'll drastically reduce your chances of coming across as that guy who is just impossible to please.
My father was fond of telling me that life is like a **** sandwich. The more bread you have, the less **** you have to eat.
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- Dec 19, 2009
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What would it take to chance the zeitgeist so calls would get made on the first clear violation?
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Maybe someone getting a penalty during or after the round for not calling obvious infractions or not paying attention?...
The next stage of human evolution. :wall:
Joking aside, I don't know. I'm not even sure it's possible, as an atmosphere of camaraderie and congeniality is often desired as the optimal environment for peak play.
Whether it's it's true or not, it is certainly perceived that a cheerful grouping in which everyone is getting along well and encouraging each other leads to the best scores for everyone on the card. One stick in the mud in the group, whether it's a reserved introvert who is not as effusive as the others, a stern and focused competitor with resting (slur deleted) face, someone who is genuinely unpleasant to be around, or someone who actually enforces the rules is perceived to be bringing down the mood of the group, and it follows that this person is causing everyone to play poorly.
I think it would require the vast majority of players to adopt the mindset that a called infraction is not a personal insult to them, nor a demerit or slur against their character, and the acceptance that it is the responsibility of each player to humbly accept correction when it is necessary.
Good luck with that. :wall:
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
Well put. Perhaps also lets say if PaigeB's winning jump putt had been to the side or clearly (?) feet off the ground before release, you could think that somebody says something.
Hey, we made it! Foot fault discussion after the first NT. Yay! No basket talk tho....
Hey, we made it! Foot fault discussion after the first NT. Yay! No basket talk tho....
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
I just saw something funny on my YouTube feed. There was a topic that said "Role Playing Games" and the 2 vids that were under it were the final round vids from Las Vegas Challenge, lol...
Meillo
Eagle Member
The first (clear) violation is always a problem (unless the judges have a concentrated look at exactly this thing (but especially in putting situations they rather look away, for other reasons)). The second (clear) violation (the one after the exchanged looks and rolled eyes) is much easier to call. Thus non-sanctioned warnings or hints on the first occurance are much more likely to happen. The calling player might not have been totally focussed and sure, others might not have noticed it at all ... Enough to notify the player but not enough to punish him or her, from the calling player's perspective.
This is a topic with huge social impact among the players. You have to look at it from this perspective.
That's my oppinion from my experiences with the same situation in other sports.
It could become required that the other 3 card mates stand in a line about 10 ft behind the thrower, closely scrutinizing the player's stance, and with flags in hands ready to call out any infraction.
That would add drama.
uncle pennybags
Double Eagle Member
How about they just start paying attention to other cardmates play. Instead of just walking away not looking at all after clearing a putt!
Ricky seems to run to the next hole once he's done.
I'd love it if when people want to note an alleged foot fault that went uncalled, they'd link to the appropriate video with at least an approximate time to find it (hole 5, 2nd shot or the time code itself). That way, you know, we could actually discuss whether it was a missed call or not.
Having watched all the FPO coverage, I did notice a couple times where it appeared Cat might have foot faulted on a fairway run up. Two things complicated my ability to say for certain that she did. One is the camera angle and not being able to clearly determine where the target was (for line of play purposes). Two was the way she pivots her front foot during her throw/follow-through. From what I could tell, she may have had her toes in contact with the lie at release, making her legal, before pivoting noticeably on her heel and having her toes come completely off the lie giving the appearance that she missed her mark.
This is a big reason why I don't like the expansion of the lie to the 20X30cm box. Under the old rule, where you had to contact the line of play directly, I think the call on Cat is easier to make. She didn't appear to be on the line at all, toes or heel. She may have been within the box though, at least with her toes at release. I didn't break it down frame-by-frame to confirm anything, but seeing it in real time, I wouldn't call it. And I don't blame her group that they didn't. It was not clearly a fault.
Having watched all the FPO coverage, I did notice a couple times where it appeared Cat might have foot faulted on a fairway run up. Two things complicated my ability to say for certain that she did. One is the camera angle and not being able to clearly determine where the target was (for line of play purposes). Two was the way she pivots her front foot during her throw/follow-through. From what I could tell, she may have had her toes in contact with the lie at release, making her legal, before pivoting noticeably on her heel and having her toes come completely off the lie giving the appearance that she missed her mark.
This is a big reason why I don't like the expansion of the lie to the 20X30cm box. Under the old rule, where you had to contact the line of play directly, I think the call on Cat is easier to make. She didn't appear to be on the line at all, toes or heel. She may have been within the box though, at least with her toes at release. I didn't break it down frame-by-frame to confirm anything, but seeing it in real time, I wouldn't call it. And I don't blame her group that they didn't. It was not clearly a fault.
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And what would be the penalty if the other 3 don't? And who would call it?:\
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
Anyone know when the other card coverage is coming out from Vegas? Gatekeeper Media had one card, right? Others?
SD86
Banned
IMHO, this won't happen until "outsiders" can make those calls; i.e. an official assigned to every scorecard, or officials assigned to each hole that watch for such things and have the authority to call them.
Then it might not be the players making the calls (they still could, of course), so Nova P.'s point about camaraderie might be less affected. Also, i'm still rankled by the Wysocki/McCrae/Nikko incident last year, which I continue to think was outright cheating by Wysocki AND McCrae... a ref on that card or hole that could've made the call or backed up Nikko would've made a huge difference not only there, but for the rest of the year in terms of the controversy.
I am not saying this WILL happen, and I know there are a limited number of people so this (assigning refs to cards or holes) may not be feasible at this time. I'm merely saying that THAT is what it's going to take to get consistent calls for rules infractions.
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