PDGA World Championships 2022

[Flick Maniac]

Hennas 2nd place was mentioned in the local newspaper, which is rare. Also mentioned she was 2nd to worst in putting in the whole competition.

 

[hawgdriver]

Great tournament. As a Colorado dude, I was rooting hard for Aaron and Tristan. Also, Eagle and Joel. Alex too, maybe.

I was thrilled to see 3 CO dudes finish top 10.

The only thing that hurt real bad was watching Aaron miss the putt on 1 in the final round.

It's not that a dude missed a putt. I get that.

It's that it was clear that he was dialed. He was focused. He was mentally tough. You can tell these things.

It's that he released the disc a few milliseconds early.

Which is a thing any of us might do with that much adrenaline and anxiety.

Our prep is overcome by stupid adrenaline.

Something about that--just that stupidity--chafes.

 

[Jolt]

Hennas 2nd place was mentioned in the local newspaper, which is rare. Also mentioned she was 2nd to worst in putting in the whole competition.

Nice on the first part...the other part ..not so nice.

Almost forgot Henna was in the lead at one point

 

[Jolt]

Henna lost by 8. .

Henna missed 23 C1x putts . . Kristin missed 10...Missy missed 6

So Henna does not need to be a great putter like Missy or even a good putter like Kristin.. . .she just need to not be one of the worst in the field

 

[Jolt]

New World champs pictures is up on the PDGA site

 

[Arisugawa]

I figured something didnt feel right when she threw RHBH hard.

No doubt the women on the lead card the last two rounds are some of the longest bombers out there, but Kristin doesn't lack for distance herself. Yet she was getting pretty regularly out thrown off the tee by the others.

Much respect to Tattar for figuring out a game plan that avoided throwing RHBH for power, and relying on well placed FH's to set up 2nd/3rd shots for birdie looks. Her game is so complete and well-balanced, that even without one of her weapons, she still won going away.

If that's not impressive, then I don't know what is.

Of the women I've played with, my opinion would probably be that Kristin has the best all-around game of anyone on tour.

A lot of players have better aspects of their game in the same way we describe tennis players: Williams on her serve, Halep as a scrambler, Seles as offensive, Hingis for placement shots, Radwanska for touch, etc.

We could say the same for disc golfers: Hokom on forehands, Scoggins putting, that manner of thing.

But Tattar doesn't seem to have a weakness. Her all-around game is very, very strong. She has all the shots she needs. Obviously, I haven't seen her try grenades or scoobers or distance tomahawks, but she doesn't need them. She has other tools that will give her similar results.

 

[araytx]

I think Paul winning the coin toss in the playoff was VERY important. .

But wonder why Paul did not lay up in the playoff. . harder shot?

I was corrected by PDGA on the coin toss issue a while back. You don't let one player "win" (unless you call getting to go second on the first hole "winning." Our crew made that mistake on an early year tourney and I messaged to get a clarification.

So we did what a lot of people think -- like football, we end with a two-player playoff so with the new rule had a coin toss and allowed the winner of the toss to choose going 1st or 2nd on the first hole. When I inquired PDGA responded that's not how it is supposed to work. At the coin toss the TD or official will say, "OK Heads = player 1 goes first, Tails + player 2 goes first" so there is not choosing. The coin came up, "Gossage will go first."

and fyi, Kristin Tattar is good friends with the McBeths, and she said on Friday's post=round interview, she couldn't imagine a situation where she would lay up hole #16, because that attempting to do so brings double bogey into play if you slide OB on the second shot.

So is your issue that people are pointing out that one player is missing 10-15 foot putts but not pointing out that another player is missing putts that are at least twice as long?

The difference is likely due to this: people expect some misses from tester range; they don't expect misses from 10-15 feet other than a one-of or a fluke.

Furthermore you say there's nothing but praise for AG but looking back at the thread it was pointed out that he made mistakes to open the door for Paul, that his approach on a hole was "fair at best," that he "fought to give away the championship," and that he needs to figure out his putting.

Your assertion that there was "nothing but praise" is factually incorrect. So is your issue that there wasn't enough criticism? Or that the criticism wasn't harsh enough? Or that there was too much praise?

I'm thinking Henna missed about 20ish putts inside 20 feet for the week, give or take. Gossage missed just that aforementioned one is the only one I recall.

As far as failure to get up and down from shorter range, that is often the biggest game changer from winning and losing in MPO since these guys are pretty much automatic inside 25 feet. Take a look at Heimburgs play. He fluffed a bunch of approaches inside 250 that cost him all sorts of strokes, while PMB and the Goose executed. I think his reliance on that one hyzer angle with that Rhyno and his serviceable but definitely not high level forehand were the difference there. Sure the Goose fluffed that one approach, but it was the only one I can remember from that range.

NP:
Check the coverage. Chip approaches on #7, #8, and #17. FYI I thought he would have stayed with his FH on #8 (looking at the basket) and gone with a Zone flex, but he went backhand, sawed it off and missed the putt allowing Paul not to be punished for going OB.

Saro;
OK, if you don't like my nothing but praise comment (I was speaking to only a few) \, please allow me to retract it. Can we agree that these guys have been HARDER on Henna than Gossage? Let's say it like that. At least that's what I see. If you're claiming that I was ONLY pointing out AG missing putts twice as long, that's not correct. He started the round on hole#1 missing from 20 ft. And plus, people can't claim on one end that women are naturally not as strong as men in the sport, and then on the other end not be able to equate a woman's 15' putt with a man's 20 or 25' putt. In terms of strength, aren't those the same? Or do you all believe they aren't the same?

Put it another way, take the 10 best female putters in the game in a challenge vs. the 10 best male putters in the game. All the women putting from 15' and all the men putting from 25' -- who you got? And then all the women putting from 20' and all the men putting from 33' -- who ya got?


(All):
By the way, Henna shot a clear 33 points over her rating in Round 5, AG shot 10 points over. Now I realize Henna is a lower rating to begin with, but she clearly did MUCH BETTER than could have been expected. AND AG had multiple options to do the same. That's all I am saying. I don't think she deserves more criticism when all factors are taken into account.

 

[Rastnav]

By the way, Henna shot a clear 33 points over her rating in Round 5, AG shot 10 points over. Now I realize Henna is a lower rating to begin with, but she clearly did MUCH BETTER than could have been expected. AND AG had multiple options to do the same. That's all I am saying. I don't think she deserves more criticism when all factors are taken into account.

I definitely believe there is a tendency for more and harsher criticism to be directed towards women as opposed to men in analogous situations. This is not all of the time or in all situations, but I think it definitely occurs. Plenty of examples to choose from.

That said, I don't think Gossage and Blomroos are analogous, for a few reasons. One is simply that Gossage was not in any way a known commodity on the pro scene before this tournament. Salonen and Blomroos are already well known. Gossage basically missed a few shots that you might expect him to make, but he hasn't been in the situation in any tournament with high stakes like this. He hasn't really been on coverage before. He hasn't had crowds before. You expect people to not cope perfectly with that at first.

You can look at some of the comments made about Calvin or AB "not having it" to see a narrative can start to develop once you start to see a pattern form, even if that pattern is just one we are creating, like a face in the bark of a tree.

The second, related to the first, is that both Salonen and Blomroos have the same issue cropping up over and over again. It's one thing, it happens a lot, it seems like it should be correctable. It's not like Ohn Scoggins who can't throw 400 feet because she is 40 and shorter than just about anyone else on tour. You can't fault her for that.

The third is that the thing that's correctable is something even the backyard AM3 thinks they can do well (regardless of whether they actually can do it in a tournament setting).

Now, does that mean harsh criticism is warranted? No. It's a fault in execution not morality. People too often confuse the two. But it does mean there is an obvious thing for people to latch on to, so you are certainly going to see more people pointing this out, regardless of what tone they use.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Just to be clear: My only criticism is missing 15 foot putts. Not long putts or putts near C1.

When your upshot shot ends up pretty much where you want it to be, and you still two putt ... or worse? :\

I'm not saying you gotta be 100% from that range. We're all human. Just a matter of time before one of them doesn't go in, or flops out. But when happens repeatedly? It's like a basketball player missing free throws. You're gonna have to be that much better at every other aspect if the game to to overcome the disadvantage of missing easy shots.

It has nothing to do with gender. It's about a professional not getting the job done. Is it due to pressure of moment? Probably.

But part of being a professional anything, is handling the pressures of that profession. For accountants, it's tax season. For physicians, in might be other peoples' lives. For short order cooks or servers a neighborhood diner, it's the lunch hour rush.

For disc golfers, it's what happens on the green.

Because all the great work you did...on the tee, in the fairway, scrambling to save par, the purpose of all of that... was to set up an easy putt.

 

[SaROCaM]

Saro;
OK, if you don't like my nothing but praise comment (I was speaking to only a few) \, please allow me to retract it. Can we agree that these guys have been HARDER on Henna than Gossage?

That's fair.

If you're claiming that I was ONLY pointing out AG missing putts twice as long, that's not correct. He started the round on hole#1 missing from 20 ft.

Is 20 feet not twice as long as 10 feet? AG missed from 20 compared to HB from 10. AB missed from 30 compared to HB from 15. AG missed from 38 compared to HB from…well, 15 again and again. Given the numbers my statement is correct (unless there was no miss from 10 feet?)

And plus, people can't claim on one end that women are naturally not as strong as men in the sport, and then on the other end not be able to equate a woman's 15' putt with a man's 20 or 25' putt. In terms of strength, aren't those the same? Or do you all believe they aren't the same?

Within 20 feet or so I think the physical difference is negligible at best, but I don't know for sure the science/physiology/whatever. I personally would equate a 15 footer for a woman with a 15 footer for a man.

Compare for example, free throws in the WNBA and NBA. Percentages are higher in the WNBA. At some point I saw a stat that Elena Delle Donne had a career free throw percentage over 93% which is better than anyone from either the WNBA or NBA. Both free throw lines are from 15 feet. Yes, the WNBA ball is smaller, but to account for this (1) putters are much lighter even at max weight and (2) lighter putters are available.

If women can outperform men at 15 foot free throws with a heavier implement (compared to a putter, 566 gram basketball vs 175 gram putter) at a target 10 feet off the ground, why are we saying a woman's 15 foot putt is different from a man's 15 foot putt?

Perhaps this has been discussed already, but it seems to me that any touring pro would expect to make 15 footers all day, whether FPO or MPO.

Put it another way, take the 10 best female putters in the game in a challenge vs. the 10 best male putters in the game. All the women putting from 15' and all the men putting from 25' -- who you got? And then all the women putting from 20' and all the men putting from 33' -- who ya got?

I'd take the best FPO putters from 15' and 20'.

(All):
By the way, Henna shot a clear 33 points over her rating in Round 5, AG shot 10 points over. Now I realize Henna is a lower rating to begin with, but she clearly did MUCH BETTER than could have been expected. AND AG had multiple options to do the same. That's all I am saying. I don't think she deserves more criticism when all factors are taken into account.

Rastnav had a pretty good reply.

I'll add that because Henna played so well off the tee and above rating in general, it was frustrating (I'm sure for her of course) to see all that good work undone by missed putts from 15 feet or less. That is the main point of criticism, and I'm sure she will put in work to shore up that aspect of her game. If not for that, we might have seen a playoff in FPO as well. (Speculation, yes, but at least possible.)

 

[@CD-]

Generally the MPO field had a few buckets of players that could have gotten them on the podium:

Good all around thrower and putter, way too many OB: (19+ Shots Gained total, 15+ OB)
Anthony Barela
Gavin Babcock
Simon Lizotte
Eagle McMahon
Ezra Aderhold

Great thrower, below average putting, too many OB: (19+ Shots Gained T->G, <1 Shots Gained Putting C1x or C2, 10+ OB)
Anthony Barela (14/15 OB came at ECC)
Calvin Heimburg (4 OB in final round)
Ricky Wysocki (5 OB each in both 4th and final rounds)
Jake Hebenheimer
Albert Tamm
Cole Redalen

Outlier based on player ratings:
Gannon Buhr - Not great off the tee, excellent putting C1 & C2
Chris Dickerson - Just good off the tee meant not as many putting opportunities which he needed since his putting wasn't above his season average for the tournament

Heimburg and Wysocki seemed to change up their strategies to a bit more aggressive, attempting to catchup the final round or two at ECC which may have dipped some of their overall stats for GIR & OB rate. Dickerson and Wysocki didn't seem to have their elite putting they would have needed to contend for the podium. Clemons and Orum both played very well but didn't get enough GIR1 opportunities in one of the 5 rounds to win the tournament. Tanner missed the JS hole 1 island both rounds and missed ECC hole 16 island 2 of the 3 rounds.

 

[txmxer]

I'll defer to my previous statements and go a bit further. At ECC, the front 9 is considered very scorable. Failing to score on those holes is going to be create a mindset that you need to take risks on the back 9 to get some of the birds missed.

Overall, both of these courses, pretty much every hole is considered a scoring opportunity by most of the field. That's a lot of pressure. That pressure had a tremendous impact on player performances.

 

[Nick Pacific]

It has nothing to do with gender. It's about a professional not getting the job done. Is it due to pressure of moment? Probably.

But part of being a professional anything, is handling the pressures of that profession

Because all the great work you did...on the tee, in the fairway, scrambling to save par, the purpose of all of that... was to set up an easy putt.

Bogey, I don't think it has anything to do with pressure, or confidence. Confidence in terms of putting is WAY overrated. It's sheer COMPETENCE. I flat out think the Finns aren't making those putts at your local weekly either. Competence precedes confidence. Cannot stress this enough. You can be as confident as you can will yourself to be, if you don't have the basic form and leverage down, it ain't going to happen.

This guy broke it down simple and easy in regards to Eveliina's putting, I couldn't agree more and highly recommend giving it a listen. I think Rastanav above is also spot on about Henna. It's mechanics, pure and simple.

I'm on mobile so can't link the time stamp, so go to 3:07:30

 

[Nick Pacific]

I'm no putting guru, but I think Henna's putting stroke is the big culprit in why she is missing putts. What I mean by that is I think her form is more subject to break down, and especially on short putts.

Her base is too narrow and she starts from a static position at the bottom of the swing that's fairly loose, with both her arm bent and her wrist curled. Then she false starts her putt and fully resets (pretty much every time), regripping her putter.

She has literally no backswing in her motion. It's all a jerk from the bottom. That means that she has to generate tendon load with her upstroke. I don't think that's a good recipe for consistency.

Plus, when she has a short putt, she isn't going to generate much force with that forward motion, meaning tendon load is absent. That means short putts feel completely different than longer ones.

I could be wrong, but that's what I see. Other players that I can think of that start static, with no backswing, are Orum and sometimes Hokum on longer putts. But they both clearly create tension before they start their stroke. The other is Kona, and she also struggles with putting consistency.

This. It's mechanics. Just slow mo her putting swing versus Paige or Kristen. As far as Orom goes, he's like 6'5, long arms and incredibly physically gifted and strong, so he can get away with less than ideal mechanics in his putt. Henna, as a female and just a much smaller person than him at 5'8" maybe 135 at most, is going to need more sound mechanics at her size.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Bogey, I don't think it has anything to do with pressure, or confidence. Confidence in terms of putting is WAY overrated. It's sheer COMPETENCE. I flat out think the Finns aren't making those putts at your local weekly either. Competence precedes confidence. Cannot stress this enough. You can be as confident as you can will yourself to be, if you don't have the basic form and leverage down, it ain't going to happen.

This guy broke it down simple and easy in regards to Eveliina's putting, I couldn't agree more and highly recommend giving it a listen. I think Rastanav above is also spot on about Henna. It's mechanics, pure and simple.

I'm on mobile so can't link the time stamp, so go to 3:07:30

I think looking at putting statistics (C1X% would suffice) for anyone over 4 round events with minimal differences in wind/terrain would tell the story.

If it simply is competence, one would not expect to see much difference.
However, if there is a clear trend toward lower putting percentages as an event drags on (which I would guess is closer to the truth), then one could argue pressure (real or imagined) is at play.

Example, someone who is 80% round 1, 75% round 2, then 60% and 40% rounds 3 and 4, obviously something other than competence is going on. But if each round is around 50%, then it is likely a competence thing.

I've not done any real analysis, I have no real dog in the fight, but I do think it would be an interesting study. This could be done for MPO or FPO. AB on the MPO side is one who 'seems' to struggle with putting more as the rounds progress. Again, I've not done anything empirical, just observations from some tourneys he has been in.

And none of this is criticism, just observations. There are MPO players who struggle with nerves just as much as FPO. AG obviously felt the moment in round 5, though I will point out that his scores for 5 rounds were -10, -10, -10, -9, -7. It's not like he fell apart or anything. In fact, he made a few great shots down the stretch, like his drive and upshot on 18--awesome plays. And I won't say he choked on the island hole in overtime, he may have been trying to secure an easy putt, vs just slamming the wall for a long putt into water, when he knew he had struggled a little bit with putting that round. But I do remember several shots/putts in round 5 that he seemed to be making in earlier rounds. And it is fine. Pressure is real. Winning a Worlds is a big deal. Some are great at channeling the pressure of the moment (Tom Brady, Michael Jordon, Paul), some need to learn how to do that better. If I played competitively, I guarantee I would be in the latter group.

 

[Rastnav]

I think looking at putting statistics (C1X% would suffice) for anyone over 4 round events with minimal differences in wind/terrain would tell the story.

If it simply is competence, one would not expect to see much difference.
However, if there is a clear trend toward lower putting percentages as an event drags on (which I would guess is closer to the truth), then one could argue pressure (real or imagined) is at play.

Porque no los dos? https://youtu.be/NuEIsqeRR1o

Form can be more and less resistant to failure under stressors (whatever they might be). Form can be more and less repeatable, also. There is a reason why, in ball golf, anchoring the putter against your body is now banned. (Well, two reasons, the other of which is optics).

Regardless of the fact that putting is very unique and individual, there are generic red flags. An absence of weight shift, now power from the lower body, no downswing, lack of a smooth transition. Hey, if it works, you can't knock it. But it doesn't seem to be working, and this is not a one time result. Those markers seem to me like they would all contribute to a form that is more likely to break down.

 

[Rastnav]

This. It's mechanics. Just slow mo her putting swing versus Paige or Kristen. As far as Orom goes, he's like 6'5, long arms and incredibly physically gifted and strong, so he can get away with less than ideal mechanics in his putt. Henna, as a female and just a much smaller person than him at 5'8" maybe 135 at most, is going to need more sound mechanics at her size.

I don't know that Orum's form is really less than ideal. It's incredibly simple and for him extremely repeatable. You might need long levers to make it happen, but it only matters that it's repeatable for him.

No matter how tall Henna is, she is incredibly long. Very much looks like a build that is conducive to throwing a disc, which I think is part of why she absolutely crushes it. And regardless, it's not mere "less than ideal" form making you miss back to back 12 footers. The same chain of issues going on (including stress) and anyone of any size can miss those putts.

 

[araytx]

Porque no los dos? https://youtu.be/NuEIsqeRR1o

Form can be more and less resistant to failure under stressors (whatever they might be). Form can be more and less repeatable, also. There is a reason why, in ball golf, anchoring the putter against your body is now banned. (Well, two reasons, the other of which is optics).

Regardless of the fact that putting is very unique and individual, there are generic red flags. An absence of weight shift, now power from the lower body, no downswing, lack of a smooth transition. Hey, if it works, you can't knock it. But it doesn't seem to be working, and this is not a one time result. Those markers seem to me like they would all contribute to a form that is more likely to break down.

Ahhh, the "Ticks AND Fleas" analogy. I like it.

 

[2naphish]

i bieve it was Bogeynomore that brought this to our attention. David Greenwell PDGA # 962 placed 203rd at this worlds MPO and has played every PDGA worlds ever. he also cashed 1st place in the Divisional Doubles 65+ at Masters Worlds this year with partner Randy Beers.

I played against him in my first tournament ever at the first Ohio State Championships in 1982. he shot an average of -15 for 3 rounds in 1 day (thats -45 for the math impaired) to win over Steve Wisecup ( the last player to win Worlds before Kenny started his streak).

if anyone ever gets the chance to shake his hand and say well done you should!

(by the way i shot under par for 29TH out of 33 pros that day).

 

[_MTL_]

As usual, Steve's data is very interesting, but will take me some time to digest. Thanks for your analysis, sir!

I wonder to what degree any of the DGPT TD's or designers take any of this type of analysis into consideration. I'm certainly not in on any of their conversations or decision making, but sometimes it feels as if they tweak things just because they or just to make it harder, without necessarily understanding if those changes will actually make for a better tournament.

Sometimes it seems lengthening or shortening certain holes just increases the likelihood of pars.

One of my duties on staff for the PDGA this year was worlds data analysis. We took the scores from DDO (we threw out round 3 with the crazy wind) and literally analyzed every single hole and worked with DD and crew to adjust. Here are the changes and the rational we made:

Jones

Hole 1 - The drop zone was moved from 60 feet to 35 feet from the pin. We also added a second layer of rock behind the pin. The data showed many many people laid up at DDO and there were almost not 3s after OBs. Also, very few 5 or worse. A majority of scores were 2 or 4. The shorter drop zone created more people going for it and way more score separation.

Hole 3 - at DDO, if you did not cross IB, you had to re-tee. We made all OB's go to drop zone. This eliminated some of the confusion when crossing the lake and going OB right knowing if you crossed or not.

Hole 5 (FPO Only) - The hole scored terribly as 70% (roughly) of the field scored a 3 to the MPO pin. We added the shorter pin to reward the women who got across the creek with a birdie putt.

Hole 6 - All OBs to the drop zone. Eliminated the confusion of crossing over the island.

Hole 8 (FPO Only) - very similar comments to 5.

Hole 9 - The hole just was too easy of a 4 and too hard a 3 at DDO. For the MPO, only 7 people at DDO hit circle 2 in regulation. We put the MPO at the FPO pin and made a new FPO Pin. It was probably a tad too easy, but we will review for next year and likely adjust the OB and make it much tighter.

Hole 14 - we removed the OB Creek as the score separation was a little artificial.

Hole 16 - The flag pole was deemed a relief area for safety purposes.

ECC

Hole 4 (MPO) - unusual circumstance where the FPO scored incredible but the MPO scored terrible with 80% of the field making 3. Since 2s pin is right by 4s tee, we had to either move the pin (which would mess up FPO scoring) or create a shorter tee for men. The shorter tee created a lot more separation.

Hole 6 (FPO) - very similar to 4, but the issue was for FPO. We were able to put in a new short pin which created more of a birdie chance for the women.

Hole 7 (FPO) - almost no one 3d the hole, so many women simply didnt try to throw near the OB about 300 feet from tee. Our data indicated that about 40% of the field threw a tee shot under 200 feet. We added a new short pin to entice players to challenge the OB. We still saw people laying up, but they were taking birdie out of the conversation. This created more risk reward.

Hole 9 - changed that if you crossed over the ditch and went OB, you didnt have to go to the drop zone. This is a fairness move where a shot that doesnt get over the gap and a shot that skips OB over the cart dont have the same result.

Hole 10 - the OB was too tight and we noticed many players laid up - about 50% of the field didn't hit circle 2. We moved the OB way off to create more incentive to go for the pin.

Hole 12 - FPO and MPO had a majority of 3s here. We wanted to make it a true par 4 for the women and a much more risk reward for the men. IMHO, this hole didnt quite work like we wanted and I would expect changes on this hole moving forward.

Hole 14 - (MPO) waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many 4s in the MPO division. We added a longer tee to create more 5s.

Hole 17 (FPO) - hole had 85% 4s and 5s. We added the shorter pin to create more 3s.