Post-production Hot Stamps are Illegal

[mostlynorwegian]

This really sounds like a great way to make sore losers into real *******s.
Good effort.

 

[roblee]

I'm gonna guess that there are no hot stamps or stickers on the discs that are tested by the PDGA for approval. If its OK for the mfg to modify approved discs with hot stamps & stickers then why would that be an issue for others?

 

[roblee]

Here is a recent example; stickers applied by manufacturer; after I purchased it. I am playing with this. I thought is was cool plus I'm using it as a unique mark. What should I do?

 

[dmoore1998]

I'm gonna guess that there are no hot stamps or stickers on the discs that are tested by the PDGA for approval. If its OK for the mfg to modify approved discs with hot stamps & stickers then why would that be an issue for others?

Probably because it's a lot easier for the PDGA to monitor manufacturers who decide to go overboard with something completely unintended than it is to monitor every person who plays a PDGA sanctioned event.

If Innova takes the current rule and finds a loophole to do something advantageous...other manufacturers either copy that or the PDGA shuts it down. They don't want individuals doing the same thing because that's a lot harder to monitor/control/rescind.

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Probably because it's a lot easier for the PDGA to monitor manufacturers who decide to go overboard with something completely unintended than it is to monitor every person who plays a PDGA sanctioned event.

If Innova takes the current rule and finds a loophole to do something advantageous...other manufacturers either copy that or the PDGA shuts it down. They don't want individuals doing the same thing because that's a lot harder to monitor/control/rescind.

Am over here, busily trying to figure out how a hot stamp which is microns thin, and virtually weightless has ANY impact on anything other than simple aesthetics. Can't.
God bless the middle managers who find useless things to make important.

 

[TheOtherBill]

God bless the middle managers who find useless things to make important.

Hey! Some of us have made a pretty good living shuffling papers and acting busy!!

 

[uncle pennybags]

Am over here, busily trying to figure out how a hot stamp which is microns thin, and virtually weightless has ANY impact on anything other than simple aesthetics. Can't.
God bless the middle managers who find useless things to make important.

I have some discs that got stamped repeatedly and there is a definite thickness change. From the manufacturer.

 

[uncle pennybags]

Sorry for the double.

Does the mean that discs like the solid black Vibram Open VP from 2008 are illegal if made today? They had the lettering embossed on the flight plate.

 

[Steve West]

Am over here, busily trying to figure out how a hot stamp which is microns thin, and virtually weightless has ANY impact on anything other than simple aesthetics. Can't.
God bless the middle managers who find useless things to make important.

How about stamping it twice, three times, or 1000 times?

Like a lot of rules, there is a point where everyone would agree that breaking the rule has an effect.

For all of these kinds of rules, the most enforceable place to draw the line is at zero. The hardest place to draw the line would be where the thrower can push it as far as they think they can convince the other players it doesn't give the thrower an advantage.

In this case, no extra stamps after manufacturing the disc is the rule, and has been the rule for a while.

 

[dmoore1998]

Am over here, busily trying to figure out how a hot stamp which is microns thin, and virtually weightless has ANY impact on anything other than simple aesthetics. Can't.
God bless the middle managers who find useless things to make important.

What classifies as a hot stamp? How many can you put on there? Who has defined that it must be microns thin and virtually weightless?

Do you really want the rules to turn into 1,000 pages to define all of this pointless stuff just so people can make their discs prettier?

I agree, god bless middle manager types who want to make hot stamps so important that they have to be able to do their own instead of just leaving regulated sports equipment as-is. Middle managers are the backbone of creating 1,000 page rulebooks for no real reason when the simple rule of "no, you cannot do that" is sufficient.

 

[jupiterboy]

Hot stamping requires a metal plate, usually made of magnesium. This gets heated to exactly the right temp, then a thin sheet of foil is set between the stamp and the plastic, then you press for a second.

 

[seedlings]

Here is a recent example; stickers applied by manufacturer; after I purchased it. I am playing with this. I thought is was cool plus I'm using it as a unique mark. What should I do?

You're way more likely to get called on both a 30s violation and a foot fault in every tournament you ever play than ever once a sticker. (My humble opinion)

 

[mostlynorwegian]

I have some discs that got stamped repeatedly and there is a definite thickness change. From the manufacturer.

I also have some multiple hot stamped f2's. The weight is AS listed. There's a slight thickness change, perhaps.
I also have plenty of regular stock, and f2 discs which I've wiped that have noticeable and tactile outlines in the plastic which are directly from the application of the hot stamp.
Trying to determine what possible science-lite advantage applying stickers, and hot stamps would have. The things will still smash into tree's at high speed, and get ripped apart by rocks in ways which impact the flight far more, and with some discs as the break in, a distinct advantage. Let's go after the tree's next. Stupid things.

 

[txmxer]

You're way more likely to get called on both a 30s violation and a foot fault in every tournament you ever play than ever once a sticker. (My humble opinion)

Except I was given a courtesy warning because my disc had a glow sticker on it about the size of a quarter.

"I wouldn't say anything, but someone else might".

 

[biscoe]

Except I was given a courtesy warning because my disc had a glow sticker on it about the size of a quarter.

"I wouldn't say anything, but someone else might".

I have made players remove glow crap from their discs at roughly the same frequency that I have seen foot faults called over the years. Both of these are waaaaay more common than calls on time, not that any of them occur on a regular basis.

 

[seedlings]

Except I was given a courtesy warning because my disc had a glow sticker on it about the size of a quarter.

"I wouldn't say anything, but someone else might".

I have made players remove glow crap from their discs at roughly the same frequency that I have seen foot faults called over the years. Both of these are waaaaay more common than calls on time, not that any of them occur on a regular basis.

I forgot about glow stickers. I was thinking a Discraft weight sticker equivalent. Would you call for a price tag? Curious.

 

[Skamanda]

I've always found this weird. I get that it's not just about the teeeeeeeny tiny thickness of the stamp, but because of how the stamping process can deform the disc. That's kind of why it seems odd, to me.

I have 3 Nukes, and each of them has radically different shapes - including one that's so weird you'd think it was some weird mold like the ones Quest used to make (which also has multiple hot stamps from the factory).

If the intention is to not have the flight altered, how is it an approved mold can be so wildly out of spec, and still be an allowed disc?

That doesn't even begin to get into the differences in the shoulder and dome of the Comet over the years...

 

[biscoe]

I forgot about glow stickers. I was thinking a Discraft weight sticker equivalent. Would you call for a price tag? Curious.

In theory I should but likely not. Some discs come with bar code stickers from the manufacturer so that muddies it up even more. Glow stuff stuck on discs annoys me more for some reason.

 

[Countchunkula]

I've always found this weird. I get that it's not just about the teeeeeeeny tiny thickness of the stamp, but because of how the stamping process can deform the disc. That's kind of why it seems odd, to me.

I have 3 Nukes, and each of them has radically different shapes - including one that's so weird you'd think it was some weird mold like the ones Quest used to make (which also has multiple hot stamps from the factory).

If the intention is to not have the flight altered, how is it an approved mold can be so wildly out of spec, and still be an allowed disc?

That doesn't even begin to get into the differences in the shoulder and dome of the Comet over the years...

Probably more of an issue in years past, but the color hot stamping process flattened the Ching Rocs. Almost certain that Innova just considered them already approved even though the shape was different from the disc that was approved years prior. Then you've got the destrulcans (Destroyers ran with one of the Vulcan mold pieces) that were never specifically approved, but legal (?) because they're stamped "Destroyer". I'm sure there are a bunch of other examples.

Someone else pointed out that there needed to be a line drawn somewhere and doing it this way is probably easier to enforce than a more nuanced rule.

 

[Countchunkula]

I forgot about glow stickers. I was thinking a Discraft weight sticker equivalent. Would you call for a price tag? Curious.

And then there's the little butterfly band-aid looking white sticker that Innova uses. I'd think that one, even though small, would have more of an effect on flight because it's partially on the wing than a big honking sticker on the bottom of the flight plate.