Proposed rule changes for 2024

[Skamanda]

Last tournament I played there were two of us with iPhones that overheated so we had to rely on one person to take score. I do see the plus's for doing everything on the pdga app, but there should always be a paper card as a back up.

That problem is only going to get worse over time, too

 

[biscoe]

It is supremely confusing to me. Supposedly this is to ensure that PDGA members get in to PDGA Sanctioned tournaments in areas where tournaments are popular. Tournament Directors already have the option to give preferential treatment to PDGA members during the reg process. The only thing they need to do is inform TDs of the existing options.

Around here it is pretty darn rare to have more than a handful of non-members in an event anyway. Evidently PDGA members not getting in is a perceived problem somewhere though.

 

[biscoe]

Agreed. Where is the incentive to become a member? Sad day for those who'd like to play there local c/b tier but can't unless they pony up the membership dues. I bet this will change if those tournaments stop filling up. This seems to be the recent trend since the Covid boom.

Some people just don't have time to play 5 or more tournaments a year to make the membership worth while

The expectation is that a lot of events will become D Tiers I think. (Basically C tier allowing non-members)

 

[krupicka]

My 270 player XC event yesterday had 32 players who pd the $10 fee. Not sure what to do with next year if C-tiers are members only.

FWIW all of my other events are B-tier on the AM side, so those are already member only, it's just this one event that draws new and occasional players in.

 

[Sewer bill]

That's a predictably annoying decision by the pdga. I'm going to become a cash league only player at this rate.

 

[Rastnav]

The expectation is that a lot of events will become D Tiers I think. (Basically C tier allowing non-members)

So basically this is more "let's elevate some C tiers into tournaments that require PDGA membership"?

That makes sense to me, I think. Basically there are "casual" tournaments and then there is a ladder/pyramid of serious/professional tournaments?

Because there isn't particularly anything wrong with making an existing tournament a D tier, right? No limits it places on the tournament?

 

[BillFleming]

Last tournament I played there were two of us with iPhones that overheated so we had to rely on one person to take score. I do see the plus's for doing everything on the pdga app, but there should always be a paper card as a back up.

I was in an event last year where scores were kept with PDGA Live and uDIsc....part way through we realized that PDGA live wasn't connecting anymore and uDiscs's scores had gotten messed up. Luckily we had a person keeping a paper score card. If everyone on the card has to keep score, how will it be handled if signal is lost, a phone dies, or other issues come up? Pretty much every player will need to carry a paper score card as a backup.

BTW: we ended up scavenging through our bags to find a piece of paper to keep score on and when the scoring apps came back up we updated them with the scores from the paper.

 

[Sewer bill]

That problem is only going to get worse over time, too

Coming back to disc golf from a 10 year break to find nobody using paper scores was really irritating. I don't want to use or look at my phone at all during a round. That nearly drove me back into just field throws. Thankfully my local course is cool about it.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

. . . and yet somehow has enough charge to send/receive PMs all round, shoot videos, read/post on social media, stream Spotify to their earbuds. . .

You can grab a car phone charger or USB cable for a trivial amount of money in the checkout aisle at literally every pharmacy, grocery, gas station, quik mart, etc. in the US. I have no sympathy or patience left for those who are so ill-prepared for modern life that their battery is somehow "dead" on hole one of literally every single tournament they play.

I'm done playing tournaments but as I use my phone to run/access medical devices, I'm big on reserving as much battery power for those uses as possible. I don't think scoring takes up that much battery (though searching for signal in bad reception areas can), but over a two-round tournament, I don't really want it put charging my phone on the lunch to-do list.

And my phone is always charged when I hit the course.

 

[BionicRib]

My 270 player XC event yesterday had 32 players who pd the $10 fee. Not sure what to do with next year if C-tiers are members only.

FWIW all of my other events are B-tier on the AM side, so those are already member only, it's just this one event that draws new and occasional players in.

Couldn't make it to the club challenge. Could you make it an xd event next year maybe?(if that's even an option)

I'd be signed up for the Oswego open but I can't because I'm not current. (More than happy to pay the $10 fee for not being current). Not pointing the finger at you, but I'd be lying if I said that didn't frustrate me and some others in the fox valley club.

I understand why they made this rule change about b tiers during the Covid boom, but am I incorrect to say that the boom is dwindling quite a bit this year and potentially next year as well?

 

[ru4por]

yep- have not had to give out a paper scorecard for about a year and a half now (just had to have them on hand in case people want one)- so much for that. Now all the people who don't want to use their phone will be using paper- big step backwards. 2 people keeping score was sufficient.

It will take awhile to get players on board. I can see players starting to ask for scores before all four players are ready. Forcing everyone to repeat scores. Having to stop and wait for all four phones to get pulled out is not going to increase the speed of tournament play. Inclement weather is going to make this even worse. I thought digital scoring really cleaned up the conflicting scores issues. Not a fan of this change.

 

[krupicka]

Couldn't make it to the club challenge. Could you make it an xd event next year maybe?(if that's even an option)

Thought about it already. D tiers are one round only. So if one wants to do two rounds it would need to be two separate events (with all of the fees essentially being doubled including the $10 fee.)

I'd be signed up for the Oswego open but I can't because I'm not current. (More than happy to pay the $10 fee for not being current). Not pointing the finger at you, but I'd be lying if I said that didn't frustrate me and some others in the fox valley club.

I understand why they made this rule change about b tiers during the Covid boom, but am I incorrect to say that the boom is dwindling quite a bit this year and potentially next year as well?

Events are not selling out as fast as during the Covid boom, but they are still ahead of the pace that I had pre-Covid. My IOS events are are all B-tier for Ams so that's even with the membership requirement in place for all of those events.

But yes for the guys that just play the one event at their home course every year, I can see the cost/benefit ratio not fitting those players.

 

[Chains Bailey]

My email to the PDGA to share my feedback.....

For your consideration,

1.Please add "at the players expense" to the following.

"TDs must make a reasonable effort to provide the payout to the player by contacting them, offering to ship - at the players expense, etc."

It can get quite expensive for a TD sending out multiple players packs anywhere from $15-25 postage each. Specifically, when the players packs are of multiple items not all shaped like a disc or piece of paper.

2. I see no reason to have D-Tiers, but since they are being introduced - I do not think they should be limited to one round only.

3. I do not agree with making it a requirement to be a PDGA member to play in C-Tiers. As a TD, if D-Tiers are the same as previous C-Tiers in all other aspects, save for being a PDGA member, then I would WANT to offer D-Tiers in place of C-Tiers (But would not due to them being 1 round only) so that one of the BEST things about disc golf is retained. That "thing" is the mixing of divisions - the positive aspects of mixing divisions is huge and many.

The mixing of skill levels, tournament / rules / etiquette experience, people / personalities, ages, genders and much more has been the heartbeat of disc golf since its inception - IMO. This is where players learn from - in so many ways. (Leagues, in my opinion, are not the place the above is learned, quite the opposite seems to be the overall results)

Forcing players to play with the same 3-6 people at every event, in certain divisions, takes away all of the above and could possibly dissuade players from continuing to participate in PDGA events.

Additionally, you have to take in consideration the various socioeconomic differences in different parts of the country, county or even town. Where I have run events for 20+ years, if it were not for the $10 option, I would estimate that the PDGA would have lost 50-100 new members. They would have never even tried an event in the first place if required to be a member beforehand. (Again, D-Tiers are not an option due to them being 1 round only)

As a TD, I want the opportunity to welcome and introduce new players to tournament play (And the PDGA by proxy). With the D-Tier being a 1 round event only - I will never have that chance again, since I would never offer a 1 round event EVER for any reason - I do not think many people want to TRAVEL / PAY for such a limited experience.

Additionally, I am not going to LOWER the level of experience for players that have come to my C-Tiers (2 Rounds) for decades to D-Tiers (1 Round).

You are killing one of the best experiences of a TD - welcoming and introducing new players to tournament play AND shooting yourself in the foot by not using your best asset (TDs) to bring in new players that may join the PDGA.

I realize that disc golf is booming' in numbers, but I do not think taking that for granted is a good idea.

A compromise I think would work is to require PRO divisions to be PDGA members and grouped only with other PROS at C-Tiers and above. Allow the AM side to still pay the $10 and mix divisions at C-Tiers and below.

My "Hot-Take" - Do not even introduce the D-Tiers at all. Waste of time, resources, efforts for the TDs, players and clubs --- OR just use the D-Tiers for flex start events and leave the C-Tiers as they always have been.

Thanks
Brandon Bailey
PDGA #11864

 

[Dcinmd]

But yes for the guys that just play the one event at their home course every year, I can see the cost/benefit ratio not fitting those players.

I just had a conversation on why a friend didn't sign up for his local b-tier this year. He stated it is not worth the entry fee of +60 plus and additional +50 to play a single tournament this year.

 

[_MTL_]

The expectation is that a lot of events will become D Tiers I think. (Basically C tier allowing non-members)

Note that D tiers are limited to one round.

 

[_MTL_]

The mixing of skill levels, tournament / rules / etiquette experience, people / personalities, ages, genders and much more has been the heartbeat of disc golf since its inception - IMO. This is where players learn from - in so many ways. (Leagues, in my opinion, are not the place the above is learned, quite the opposite seems to be the overall results)

I respect this opinion, but I do not support mixing divisions at PDGA events.


PDGA events are about competition. For the same reason you don't start the lead card of a division on hole 8 and the second card on 17, you should keep players competing against each other as close together as possible on the course.

Players can still mix at D tiers, leagues, and local monthlies. This is where the core you are speaking about should be. If you are not experiencing these things, especially rule enforcement, at leagues then the issue isn't the league, rather the lack of rule and etiquette training.

Finally, mixing creates situations where people don't want to play with other people. Many women complain when not with other women and as someone who now plays MP40, I appreciate playing with players of my own age range.

 

[biscoe]

Note that D tiers are limited to one round.

Well that sucks. In that case I think the whole change is a waste of time and effort. Entry level events of some sort that are open to non-members serve the organization well straddling the line between the casual nature of leagues and more serious tournament play. Once again they are fixing something that was not broken to begin with.

I still dislike clearing your runup and all players keeping score MUCH worse though. Both of those seem like rules made for Elite play that are being put into place for all play. IMO the time has arrived for some rules to differ between the two.

 

[_MTL_]

Well that sucks. In that case I think the whole change is a waste of time and effort. Entry level events of some sort that are open to non-members serve the organization well straddling the line between the casual nature of leagues and more serious tournament play. Once again they are fixing something that was not broken to begin with.

Many members did / do not like that a non member can take their spot from them in C tiers.

 

[ToddL]

I understand why they made this rule change about b tiers during the Covid boom, but am I incorrect to say that the boom is dwindling quite a bit this year and potentially next year as well?

Overall number of events is significantly up, overall number of players is significantly up, number of players per event is flat.

 

[ru4por]

Well that sucks. In that case I think the whole change is a waste of time and effort. Entry level events of some sort that are open to non-members serve the organization well straddling the line between the casual nature of leagues and more serious tournament play. Once again they are fixing something that was not broken to begin with.

I still dislike clearing your runup and all players keeping score MUCH worse though. Both of those seem like rules made for Elite play that are being put into place for all play. IMO the time has arrived for some rules to differ between the two.

I agree with the above. I am not generally in favor of restricting the choices of a TD. Do D Tiers offer less points per win/tie? If so, this is ANOTHER reason I am not really pleased with this.