Putting and immobilizing joints

[jenb]

I have been watching some videos on putting, and one of them noted that every good putter immobilizes the elbow and uses the shoulder and legs to impart the momentum to the disc, whether it's climo's straight arm or todd's "terydactyl" arm. It appeared that immobilizing or minimizing wrist movement was part of the message, and that we should just try to focus on using leg movement with shoulder lift and/or rotation to putt.

However, I noticed from Jay and Des Reading's videos that they seem to incorprate quite a bit of elbow movement when putting, and they are great putters, no doubt. So I don't know if I should focus on eliminating the elbow movement or not.

What do you guys think? Is elbow movement generally something to be avoided? What about wrist?

 

[mashnut]

I'm not a great putter by any means, but this got me thinking about my own putting. My elbow is fairly immobile during my putting stroke, but straightens out on my follow through. I definitely have some wrist movement, but it's mostly up and down like shaking hands rather than side to side. Interesting topic, I'd love to see input from better players.

 

[jenb]

FYI, this is the main video I'm thinking of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtO3pwFesZ0

And here are some vids of the readings:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuFeLN1-wic
http://www.mindbites.com/lesson/5148-disc-golf-putting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3W-xNzqoY8

 

[Kaikias]

You practice either one enough and you will be a good putter. It is really what works for you and alot of practice.

 

[jenb]

I meant to link this video instead of that last one at the bottom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbKaP77_BjA

 

[JoshEpoo]

Simple is better. That's basically it. The absolute most important thing is finding a good release. Body positions and such are much less important than getting a good clean release with no flutter and control of the nose angle.

 

[chrishysell]

I watched Jay doing his putting demonstration at the Memorial and I noticed that he had a lot of body motion. I always teach limiting your body motion to make it easier to putt consistently on both flat and irregular terrain. Extra body motion adds timing to the equation. Limiting your motion limits your mistakes.

 

[CoachQ]

I watched Jay doing his putting demonstration at the Memorial and I noticed that he had a lot of body motion. I always teach limiting your body motion to make it easier to putt consistently on both flat and irregular terrain. Extra body motion adds timing to the equation. Limiting your motion limits your mistakes.

hysell beat me to it. I also attended the clinic by Reading and Ross Brandt (among others). These two focused on the putting. Both have very different styles. Some people focus on the shoulder being the "one moving joint" where others look to the elbow. Jay mentioned that he likes the elbow movement since he can depend on his elbow only moving up and down. His shoulder moves up, down, in, out, and every other way possible. Either style did incorporate power and momentum switch from the legs. This is necessary to get "umph" behind a decent putt (IMO). I also saw one video where Cam Todd talks about his still arm but he does mention that his wrist doesn't remain still, but instead it applies some spin and pop to his putt. I think this was in the clinic he did with Feldberg at the College Championships.

 

[Smigles]

It's the old push putting vs spin putting thing, right ?

You can become good with either technique, all that matters is how much you practice.

For all that it is worth, I prefer push putting, Feldberg style. Almost no elbow or wrist movement in my putt.

 

[BarkBuster]

I have found that if I "Zombie Putt" I am deadly accurate.

Zombie Putt: Get in my stance and line up my shot, pick a link on the chains and just hone in on it. I keep my body 100% rigid and only allow my shoulder and wrist to move. The most important thing for me about this putting style is that my body isn't making any unnecessary movements that might throw off my aim and if you NEVER take your eyes off of the chain link you are very seldom going to breeze by the target.. I only putt like this inside of 30-40ft however.

 

[BarkBuster]

edit: The reason I call it Zombie Putting is because I will stand there and stare at the chain link like a zombie until I feel like that chain link is the only thing in the world. haha.. can look quite awkward Im sure, but 80% of the time it works every time. haha

 

[chrishysell]

I have found that if I "Zombie Putt" I am deadly accurate.

Zombie Putt: Get in my stance and line up my shot, pick a link on the chains and just hone in on it. I keep my body 100% rigid and only allow my shoulder and wrist to move. The most important thing for me about this putting style is that my body isn't making any unnecessary movements that might throw off my aim and if you NEVER take your eyes off of the chain link you are very seldom going to breeze by the target.. I only putt like this inside of 30-40ft however.

I've never bought into the link thing. My theory has always been that if you limit your motions and get your body position correct you should be able to putt in the daylight, in the dark, with your eyes open, and with your eyes closed. It's repetition you are trying to achieve.

BTW, my putt is always evolving. I have an old putt that I have been using for years and then a newer, straight line putt that I have developed in the last few months because of the constant windy events I have been playing in. My straight line putt does require some lower body movement to create the forward push. It has opened my eyes to the varying techniques that people use. It's still good to have multiple styles.

 

[JoshEpoo]

The best putters always use weight shift to add power to the putts. The less effort you have to put into the shot with your wrist, the more control you get, provided you have good balance. You can sink a putt from 40' with exactly the same wrist power (and a slightly higher trajectory) as a 20' shot if you have good timing with your weight shift. If you stand rigid you have to use a lot of arm and elbow as well as wrist.

That being said, it's better to learn the wrist action at close range so you get a smooth release, then work on incorporating more power into the shot with your legs.

 

[BarkBuster]

I've never bought into the link thing.

It might be purely psychological for me but the link really does help with my accuracy. It just keeps me focused I think (normally there is some chit-chat going on between friends).

 

[chrishysell]

The best putters always use weight shift to add power to the putts. The less effort you have to put into the shot with your wrist, the more control you get, provided you have good balance. You can sink a putt from 40' with exactly the same wrist power (and a slightly higher trajectory) as a 20' shot if you have good timing with your weight shift. If you stand rigid you have to use a lot of arm and elbow as well as wrist.

That being said, it's better to learn the wrist action at close range so you get a smooth release, then work on incorporating more power into the shot with your legs.

a good putter shouldn't need weight shift until they start putting outside of 40ft

again with the link thing. We didn't have anything but object courses and then when we got a basket course I learned to play after work in the dark. All I had to putt at was a blur. It may help with focus but it's really not necessary.

 

[jenb]

hysell beat me to it. I also attended the clinic by Reading and Ross Brandt (among others). These two focused on the putting. Both have very different styles. Some people focus on the shoulder being the "one moving joint" where others look to the elbow. Jay mentioned that he likes the elbow movement since he can depend on his elbow only moving up and down. His shoulder moves up, down, in, out, and every other way possible. Either style did incorporate power and momentum switch from the legs. This is necessary to get "umph" behind a decent putt (IMO). I also saw one video where Cam Todd talks about his still arm but he does mention that his wrist doesn't remain still, but instead it applies some spin and pop to his putt. I think this was in the clinic he did with Feldberg at the College Championships.

So did you get the impression that Jay immobilizes his shoulder and uses the elbow? I thought that might be it from that last video especially.

Jay has a football background, and it looks to me like he has adapted a football stance into a putt. He has lots of shoulder muscle too, so he probably wouldn't have any problem holding his arm up with the shoulder immobile. I tried it, but my arm shakes and my shoulder muscles get fatigued quickly.

So is it fair to say that many great putters immobilize either the elbow or the shoulder?

 

[dodgeball]

Interesting thread jenb! It definitely got me thinking about my own putting style. I start with a bent elbow at address, cock it slightly with the weight shift and extend it on the follow through. I mainly putt this way becuz I feel I get more power than with other techniques. The straight arm method would seem more consistent, but it just feels unnatural to me and doesn't offer as much power to the shot. On wrist movement, I try to just 'pop' with the wrist at the very end of the stroke. Having said all that, I'm an inconsistent putter at best

 

[Discwrangler]

First and foremost, you need to putt however you believe you're going to make it. Eric McCabe said that once.

I putt with an array of techniques based on 1) The putt at hand, and 2) What feels good.

 

[wolito]

My arm is pretty straight, with just a very minimal bend in the elbow. It is all from movement of the entire arm. I try to kkep the wrist immobile becasue if I add wrist movement at all, it goes too much to the left or right as I am trying fling the disc at that point.

 

[wallace]

First and foremost, you need to putt however you believe you're going to make it. QUOTE]

agree 100%. Cam Todd says look at the pole. McCabe says look at a link. They're both right I suppose.