Quest for better form

[sidewinder22]

 

[Alyjos]

It's weird, my hips do not appear to be 'bad' as if they're not activated

Probably why I can get to 440 on flat ground. But getting the hips to activate as fast as an elite thrower without turning my shoulders instantly seems to be very difficult.

Today I noticed that I can rotate my hips hard into my plant leg and possibly throw further. It feels like there's a ton of snap at the ejection point. Despite this interesting phenomenon there was only about a ~20 foot difference in horizontal momentum.

So striding into the plant, I've noticed, seems to be a tricky thing with multiple different ways to approach it. For a while simply "walking" into it felt natural and good, but now I'm not sure if focusing on rotating my weight and energy into my plant leg isnt the right way to go about it.

 

[sidewinder22]

I would say the hips are automatic or automated or reactionary during the swing, rather than activated. Reactions are faster than actions, slower loading action to exploding reaction. The hips are cocked or spring loaded and ready to react and unwind from the ground up reaction forces from shifting forward and bracing up.

 

[Alyjos]

Would opening the hips up then closing them rapidly as the front foot plants add more power you wager? Paul and Ricky come to mind when I imagine this.

Also, Shoulders, they are supposed to stay closed throughout the front-swing? How important would you say this is?

Also about the shoulders, As you are planting and ready to initiate your full power... Would you say that you gradually escalate them into the hit? I ask, because I cannot get out of the habit of trying too eager to move into my shoulder rotation from barely having my foot planted.

 

[Alyjos]

The first shot is Midrange, Second and third are putters. Last few shots are drivers.

I appear to be wet in my video. It was raining earlier, it's about 94 degrees out where I am and very humid, so, I apologize.

 

[sidewinder22]

Would opening the hips up then closing them rapidly as the front foot plants add more power you wager? Paul and Ricky come to mind when I imagine this.

Also, Shoulders, they are supposed to stay closed throughout the front-swing? How important would you say this is?

Also about the shoulders, As you are planting and ready to initiate your full power... Would you say that you gradually escalate them into the hit? I ask, because I cannot get out of the habit of trying too eager to move into my shoulder rotation from barely having my foot planted.

You will get more bounce/recoil if you keep turning back as late as possible going into the plant.

I'm only trying to swing shoulder forward closed, it will turn/clear open automatically when it hits the brace and start extending the arm. Power has to be started with shoulders closed, otherwise it's a yank. Shoulder is slowly sprung forward like bow and arrow.

You need to keep turning shoulders back going into the plant - door frame drill. Your shoulders stop turning back and then your arm continues back. Try having your arm fully extended and then your shoulders turning back to complete the backswing.

 

[Alyjos]

So is there a definite point in which you turn your shoulders into the throw? Kind of like folks talk about how your arm should be full extension as your front toe touches the ground, is there a landmark where you can gather the most recoil while coming out of the backswing?

 

[sidewinder22]

So is there a definite point in which you turn your shoulders into the throw? Kind of like folks talk about how your arm should be full extension as your front toe touches the ground, is there a landmark where you can gather the most recoil while coming out of the backswing?

It's dynamic, but feels like it's right over the foot. On approaches it is over the foot...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--CCIxtDIxg&t=38s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuvujcEMLxs#t=1m25s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvvF6eW-by8&t=6m26s

 

[Alyjos]

I'm back.
Took a hiatus from formwork to play and enjoy disc golf competition, however, not being able to out throw everyone has left a sour taste in my mouth. Now I'm looking at crunch time here. I wanna get back out into the field and keep playing, but I've got to learn and master these new techniques.

Since I've revisited this form thing, I've noted that I do not think my brace is bracing enough to get the full "dingle arm" effect at the end of the throw. I've revisited this and to my surprise (yesterday) I had a 485 foot and 500 foot field throw just bracing the full inertia of my body. Now, coming back to the field today, had difficulty getting past ~450. But mind you, these are field shots, not golf shots, and I'd like to be able to pull at least 450 with a stable driver out in any given situation. Something with my timing was a lot better yesterday than it was today. I hope I can re-attain that knowledge and keep it.

So here's a short video. I'm minding a gap here, so I am not trying to gun as hard as I can. I notice my brace is sort of timid. (my body bounces on it rather than stopping altogether)

Just looking to take advice here.

 

[sidewinder22]

Need to stay balanced inside posture.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio#t=6m5s

 

[Alyjos]

What causes a good 'Knee drop' effect and how can one achieve this? Noticing that pros' left knees sort of collapse behind them when they brace.

 

[sidewinder22]

Dropping/leveraging CoG forward into the plant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ4pxndBpJ4#t=2m22s

 

[Alyjos]

There's definitely something off about how I'm shifting my body while I'm settling into my brace. Do I need to keep my center of gravity back and put less ground force on my brace in order to achieve this? It also looks as though I'm opening my hips before my right foot touches the ground. My best guess is that this is not good.

I'm trying to keep my weight over my back leg and then shift into my brace and use that momentum to pivot my hips and shoulders.

I wanted to be finished with my backhand work by now, but I've only gained maybe 20-30 extra feet without sacrificing a ton of accuracy.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your upper body is collapsing down over your front hip, instead of standing up on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um5cS9u_Y0w&t=4m32s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=6m18s

 

[Pinchofsalt]

Struggling alot with the wording on my reply, hope it makes some sense

I got a bit of a wild guess that might be worth experimenting with:

You look to have a very staggered end stance. Wouldn't this make it way harder to maintain the bodyweight properly braced on your heel as your bodyweight also must be transfered sideways? If you have a less drastic stagger your bodyweight is sort of automaticly lined up with the heel on your plantfoot making it easier to maintain upperbody posture.

 

[Pinchofsalt]

The wide staggered plant is far from my own form and expertise. I'll drop lizottes breakdown below, could be an idea to take a video from behind and compare. I belive your upperbody doesn't follow your frontfoot in the same way. And that your body folds automaticly to maintain balance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9e_lEs7ASE

 

[Alyjos]

I took sidewinder's advice here and it lead to a revelation. If I let my arm go almost completely limp (save for my supporting shoulder of course) it seems like I get a ton more snap on the disc at the end (like a hammer is forcing its way out of my hand, tugging on my shoulder). Is this what you're supposed to do?

I'm having trouble finding ways to control this. Scaling down power, I usually just use my arm (like for up-shots or short teeshots)

Am I getting close? Lol

 

[sidewinder22]

Scale it like tossing horseshoes and feeling the swing weight. Small swing to big swing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4CzVnITlo#t=5m56s

 

[Alyjos]

Pretty sure I've added a little distance, but I'm not exactly getting an effortless 450 ft hyzer yet.
Some things are confusing here.
If I swing the disc exactly as I would pull a hammer, I seem to get a little more distance. Let me elaborate. Rather than keeping my arm loose the entire time and let my hips and shoulders throw the disc, I give it a little initial tug as I'm planting into my brace. I don't continue to contract the muscles in my lats, just one quick jerk at the beginning and let the rest of my arm go loose. I gained ~20 feet of distance by doing this the other day. It has to be timed just right with the brace and you can't keep the whole thing tense. The idea came to mind when I was pounding some concrete with a hammer at work and noticed that I dont really want to keep my whole arm tense, just enough to get the momentum going and let gravity do the work.

Felt I'd mention it because there seems to be a debate on calling the upper body throw a "pull-through" or not since we're not seriously just pulling the disc with the muscles in our arm.

I'm not sure why I'm not getting the range I initially wanted. When I release the disc it feels like it really snaps out of my hand hard. Hard enough that it hurts my fingers in cold weather. Not sure what gets people another 100-150 feet of distance here. Lol. It's either I'm doing something wrong with my hips in either timing/rotation or I'm doing something wrong with my arms. I don't think its a small thing. I think there's going to be one thing that's going to make a world of difference here.

 

[seedlings]

Pretty sure I've added a little distance, but I'm not exactly getting an effortless 450 ft hyzer yet.
Some things are confusing here.
If I swing the disc exactly as I would pull a hammer, I seem to get a little more distance. Let me elaborate. Rather than keeping my arm loose the entire time and let my hips and shoulders throw the disc, I give it a little initial tug as I'm planting into my brace. I don't continue to contract the muscles in my lats, just one quick jerk at the beginning and let the rest of my arm go loose. I gained ~20 feet of distance by doing this the other day. It has to be timed just right with the brace and you can't keep the whole thing tense. The idea came to mind when I was pounding some concrete with a hammer at work and noticed that I dont really want to keep my whole arm tense, just enough to get the momentum going and let gravity do the work.

Felt I'd mention it because there seems to be a debate on calling the upper body throw a "pull-through" or not since we're not seriously just pulling the disc with the muscles in our arm.

I'm not sure why I'm not getting the range I initially wanted. When I release the disc it feels like it really snaps out of my hand hard. Hard enough that it hurts my fingers in cold weather. Not sure what gets people another 100-150 feet of distance here. Lol. It's either I'm doing something wrong with my hips in either timing/rotation or I'm doing something wrong with my arms. I don't think its a small thing. I think there's going to be one thing that's going to make a world of difference here.

Your front hip is stopping short, and you're forced to spin your torso intentionally. The front hip goes all the way 'to the wall'. Shift all the weight forward instead of part of your weight.