Question regarding flex shots versus understable drivers.

[Speedly]

My question pretty much lies in the title.

I see people saying that so-and-so stable/overstable disc is great for flex shots and so on. I know what they're talking about, but the question that always comes to mind is:

Why worry about having to hit the right anhyzer angle to flex out a more (over)stable disc when an understable disc is meant to fly the same path, from a level release?

Just wondering. Thanks!

 

[Star Shark]

Sometimes forcing an anhyzer shot out of a stable disc is more reliable than throwing an understable disc that may not flip as much as you expect or at all.

 

[btucker11]

the fade at the end of the flight is also a factor...

 

[btucker11]

I usually throw Flex shots forehand and are pretty much the only forehand shots I use other than the hard dogleg right holes.

 

[btucker11]

To be honest I use the Flex for BIG D on open holes, but it does take practice much like the hyzer flip.

 

[YawningDrone]

you can accomplish the same thing with either shot but you need to be able to pull of both because there are times when conditions wont allow for one or the other.

 

[billnchristy]

The reason I use a flex vice a slight turnover on an understable:

1) my forehand is accurate
2) the understable discs are just that...understable and wind, release angle, time of day, mood of disc, alignment of the moon are all factors in whether that disc will do what you expect. Granted there are money discs out there that obey their masters but I bet if you played a hole 10 times with a turnover and 10 times with a flex the flex would still turn out more reliable
3) even with a reliable turnover disc the finish is only going to be slight whereas I can take a meat hook and make an exaggerated 's' out of it with a nice chunky fade at the end

 

[garublador]

It's good to be able to do both. I use each shot for different situations. I'm talking RHBH here.

I use a flex when there's room on the right and I need to get around something and fade back left. There's either something in the middle or on the left side of the fairway between me and the basket.

I use an understable disc when there's room on the left and something I want to get around on the left side or middle of the fairway and I want to land right or flat.

So a flex shot is one that goes right to left and a turnover is one that goes left to right.

Also, for flex shots you actually have a relatively large margin of error. You're usually throwing something overstable so you just have to throw an anhyzer but not too much of an anhyzer. It will be something like 1 to 15 degrees of anhyzer to get a decent shot. With the turnover you described you have no margin of error if you're intending to throw flat and a relatively small margin of error if you're throwing a hyzer. It will be like 5-10 degrees of hyzer (or something like that depending on the shot).

 

[toothyfish]

Garu - well-stated.

I have also found a use for a flex shot if I need to throw over something on a distance drive. The nature of the flex shot is a higher, anhyzer release the will move left to right as it starts to descend, then fade forward for extra distance.

A turnover shot, or hyzer flip, will tend to hold it's trajectory, which in this case, would be too high and stall out.

See below pic - the basket is wide open and over the other side of the rise (hole is 650, open fairway, it's about 175 to the top of the rise, the rest is gradually down hill)

To me, there is plenty of room for error and I'd rather be long, so a flex shot aimed to the left that will arc over the rise and descend will often get me much more distance than a drive aimmed straight out or out to the right, since the higher line tends to stall it out.

 

[Technohic]

All the reasons above apply, but I will also flex and OS disc when I need the dogleg left later than the disc would do naturally.

I actually was showing a friend the game earlier this season and I had been using my Pred quite a bit for doglegs at a course we went to and knew well where it wanted to fade out. We came up to a hole that actually went left a bit further than that, and had a tree you needed to go a little right to get around before doing it. I told him, "Now see, I want to go left up there, but first I need to get right around that tree. What Im going to do is take my overstable disc and put an angle like this *shows anhyzer angle in a slow dry throw* and that is called an anhyzer, and doing it with an overstable disc to where it comes back left hard is a flex shot."

Great thing about that was, I actually executed it exactly how I described; which is 1 in a million odds, but to him, I looked like an old pro.

Thing is, I could take something like say, a Valk, or a Cheetah; something that has -2 HSS and 2 LSS and it might have worked but its pretty risky on if it was going to turn before that tree I had to get around and at the right moment to where it would come back in time; whereas the Pred, flexed; all I had to do was put a slight anny on it and aim just right of that tree.

 

[Technohic]

Heres a good example hole where I would try to flex the short tee and throw an understable with the long tee.

The path you see going right makes for a good path but the basket is a little left of dead ahead when its in the short position and a lot left in the long position, but there is an openeing behind the trees on top of the hill where the basket is. You can try to go straight through, but let me tell ya; you kick off those trees to the left and your in trouble at the bottom of that hill.

Short tee, Flex:

Long tee understable:

 

[craftsman]

I wonder the same. I currently don't use flex shots- my bag isn't really set up for it. At my level I don't see much advantage in it's use. IMO, wind will effect flex shots greatly due to exposing both side to it.

 

[craftsman]

Also, for a lower power player, on a open hole, wouldn't the flip produce greater distance potential, even if off line a lil, due to it's forward momentum?
The flex shots I see from lower power players seem to never hit cruise, while the flips will more often- even if it's not intended.

 

[glustic]

Well obviously if you cant get a over stable disc up to speed on a flex then the under stable disc is the way to go because more than likely you will still get some good fade on the under stable disc. It really all depends on how much speed you can get on the disc.

 

[jtencer]

What about just using a hyzer? I know Tech is describing a hole that requires a right bank and then a left fade which (depending upon the relative distances is perfect for a flex). Other people are just talking about open holes with hills or high obstacles in the way. Why not just throw it flat over the hill and let it fade?

The only hill that I've felt required a flex shot was this one:

And that's mostly because you need to go an extra 300 ft after you crest the hill and flex is all that will get you there.

 

[garublador]

IMO, wind will effect flex shots greatly due to exposing both side to it.

It really depends on the wind and the shot. For a lot of flex shots you'll be throwing your most wind resistant disc and you might not have a whole lot of anhzyer angle on your disc from the start.

 

[Speedly]

Let me repeat what I think I've learned to check for comprehension.

So throwing a flex is advantageous in situations where you need the fade to come into play later in the shot as opposed to earlier. Throwing a hyzer flip will start fading a little sooner, and a little bit more luck is brought into play because the disc could turn waaaay right or just a little right, depending on how much speed you put on it. The (over)stable flex is more reliable because you can aim it, and it'll hold its line until it begins to fade.

Is that roughly correct?

 

[toothyfish]

Well obviously if you cant get a over stable disc up to speed on a flex then the under stable disc is the way to go because more than likely you will still get some good fade on the under stable disc. It really all depends on how much speed you can get on the disc.

Overstable will sometimes be defined by the thrower...and the ability/power that is needed for a given disc to hold the anny line for most of the throw.

In my example/pic above, I threw a nicely seasoned Star Destroyer. It had really nice glide, but wan't a turnover disc in my hands, nor is it overstable. So with the proper anny release, it did what I needed it to do.

While I haven't thrown them lately, my favorite flex shot disc was a Z Avenger. Some may call this moderately overstable, but I could get the speed on it to hold the anny line and it would fade out near the end. It may not have been max D for me, but I could get the line/shape reliably and it had it's place.

For Technohic's example, it's a flex shot of sorts, a powered down driver shot, I bet. I use my Champ Eagle alot for 280-300 ft S-shots, because at that lower speed, it acts moderately overstable.

 

[craftsman]

Maybe I have it wrong...
I see flex shots as a horrible form move- arching around, shoulders out of wack, and torqing over.

Am I just stereotyping flex shots?

 

[garublador]

Maybe I have it wrong...
I see flex shots as a horrible form move- arching around, shoulders out of wack, and torqing over.

Am I just stereotyping flex shots?

The flex shots I'm talking about are just anhyzers thrown with an overstable disc. Anhyzers aren't inherently bad form.