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Ratings and Non-Playing Penalties

Dan Ensor

Sophomore
Joined
May 7, 2011
Messages
4,525
Location
Paris, MO
Ratings are supposed to be a descriptor of what level of golf you play. So why are penalties like cursing excessively or incorrectly adding a score card not excluded from round scores when rounds are rated?

If I'm thinking about this right, isn't this inflating everyone's rating?

980 guys shoots a 56. However, he threw his bag 5 times on the course, so he propogates a 60 as a 980 round ... ... ... doesn't seem right.
 
There's already a good deal of variance in the ratings system. Just because player A in event XYZ shot a higher rating than player B in event JKL doesn't necessarily mean he shot a better round. The conditions, the course, and the ratings of the propagators all add in extra error to the system.

Compared to that error, the impact of non-playing penalties is extremely low.
 
Ratings are supposed to be a descriptor of what level of golf you play. So why are penalties like cursing excessively or incorrectly adding a score card not excluded from round scores when rounds are rated?

If I'm thinking about this right, isn't this inflating everyone's rating?

980 guys shoots a 56. However, he threw his bag 5 times on the course, so he propogates a 60 as a 980 round ... ... ... doesn't seem right.
Seems fine to me. Control your temper. Learn how to add and subtract correctly. Are football players not penalized for their actions that don't relate to running the ball down field?
 
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Seems fine to me. Control your temper. Learn how to add and subtract correctly. Are football players not penalized for their actions that don't relate to running the ball down field?

:confused:

Are you saying that I should go around the country making sure no one gets courtesy violations or scoring penalties? Sorry, I'm not THAT dedicated.
 
The effect is miniscule.

The effect on that round's ratings are miniscule enough, but a player's overall rating is the result of multiple rounds, it's way down in the decimals.
 
Ratings are supposed to be a descriptor of what level of golf you play. So why are penalties like cursing excessively or incorrectly adding a score card not excluded from round scores when rounds are rated?

If I'm thinking about this right, isn't this inflating everyone's rating?

980 guys shoots a 56. However, he threw his bag 5 times on the course, so he propogates a 60 as a 980 round ... ... ... doesn't seem right.

It depends on how the penalty is applied. The 888 code, for example, penalizes the players' rating, but doesn't factor into the rating system itself for future round (propagation) calculations. Other kinds of penalties, for example getting a 2-throw penalty for mis-playing a hole, would be included in the round score and thus rating, but in general these kinds of penalties are rare and mostly masked by other rounds that make up a players' rating.
 
Chances are the round won't count anyways since he has 4 penalties plus the bad shots that caused him to throw his bag. I believe that when your score gets to high(~6 strokes over your rating) it now longer counts.

I could be wrong, where's Chuck? He'll know.
 
Seems fine to me. Control your temper. Learn how to add and subtract correctly. Are football players not penalized for their actions that don't relate to running the ball down field?

Football players do get penalized but do the negative yards from a personal foul count negatively against their receiving/rushing yards?
 
Ratings are supposed to be a descriptor of what level of golf you play. So why are penalties like cursing excessively or incorrectly adding a score card not excluded from round scores when rounds are rated?

If I'm thinking about this right, isn't this inflating everyone's rating?

980 guys shoots a 56. However, he threw his bag 5 times on the course, so he propogates a 60 as a 980 round ... ... ... doesn't seem right.

Yea, his penalties will inflate other people's ratings.

But maybe you could look at ratings as an indication of a person's ability to play tournament golf, not just how well they can throw. Your ability to read the rules sheet should be rewarded above the guy who takes 2 penalty strokes a round.
(I was kinda joking when I started writing that, but now that I've thought about it more, I'm starting to believe it...)
 
Chances are the round won't count anyways since he has 4 penalties plus the bad shots that caused him to throw his bag. I believe that when your score gets to high(~6 strokes over your rating) it now longer counts.

I could be wrong, where's Chuck? He'll know.

Two standard deviations below your rating, I believe, is the cutoff for a round being included in your rating. So it will depend a bit on how consistent a player is all around.
 
If you have 50 propagators avering 60 strokes for 4 rounds, that's 12,000 throws. Increase that by 4 throws, and how much effect can it really have?
 
http://www.pdga.com/faq#t133n21251

All rated rounds you have played and have been reported to the PDGA within 12 months of your most recently rated round will be included in the calculation. However, if any one of those ratings is either more than 100 points below your average rating or more than 2.5 standard deviations below your rating – whichever number is smaller – that round will not be included.

http://www.pdga.com/faq#t133n21250

If a propagator shoots more than 60 points below their rating, their score will not be used in the SSA calculations.
 
This thread has like 15 separate discussions going on. Much lulz.
 
Does that also prevent that round from being used for propagation?

ToddL corrected me that it is 2.5 standard deviations (or 100 rating points, whichever is smaller) below your rating. If the round isn't included in your rating, then no, it would not factor into subsequent round propagation either (as only your current rating feeds into the calculations).

Edit: you might be asking about the round rating calculation for that round, itself. That actually uses a totally different method:

The round rating system the PDGA uses is two-pass. For the first pass, the round score of all propagators is plotted against their rating, and linear regression is used to determine the SSA (which is used to determine points-per-throw and thus ratings).

Once initial ratings are computed using the SSA, any round that would rate >60 points below that players' rating is thrown out for purposes of the SSA calculation, and the SSA, points-per-throw, and ratings are all recomputed.

So it is possible that, with a really poor one-round performance, to have that round not count toward the SSA and round rating calculations (i.e. that round isn't treated like a round from a propagator), but still have the final rating for that round count toward the player's (new) rating.. or it's possible that the round might not count for either. Does that help? :)
 
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Yea, his penalties will inflate other people's ratings.

But maybe you could look at ratings as an indication of a person's ability to play tournament golf, not just how well they can throw. Your ability to read the rules sheet should be rewarded above the guy who takes 2 penalty strokes a round.
(I was kinda joking when I started writing that, but now that I've thought about it more, I'm starting to believe it...)

^This. Why are penalty strokes less important than other strokes in evaluating your skill at the game?

That is like saying someone who can put all their drives within 5 feet of the basked but misses all their putts and shoots even is better than someone who sucks at driving and shoots even. Just because 99.9% of people can make a 5 foot putt and we take it for granted does not mean that it doesn't count. Likewise, 99.9% of us can add our scores correctly, refrain from throwing our bags, etc...
 
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