Removing DNF players from results

[Understable]

I noticed a couple of tournaments where three people who didn't complete the PDGA tourney (DNF) and were removed from the PDGA results page as if they hadn't registered.

Is this PDGA legal? Are the TDs essentially pocketing the PDGA event fees? Is this normal for PDGA events?

 

[biscoe]

Do you mean players who actually played part of the event and dropped out? Were they listed in the unofficial results and then dropped when the results went official?

 

[Understable]

Not sure if they were in the unofficial. Did not look at results until about a month later. Does it make a difference?

 

[biscoe]

Not sure if they were in the unofficial. Did not look at results until about a month later. Does it make a difference?

It would tell you whether the TD removed them or the PDGA did.

 

[biscoe]

If they completed a round they should be included in the final results. If not then perhaps they get dropped out when the results are processed. Chuck would undoubtedly know the answer.

 

[Understable]

Or the TD removed the players and pocketed the PDGA fees for himself. PDGA should receive their fees.

 

[DavidSauls]

A $2 crime?

 

[JC17393]

A $2 crime?

X 3 X a couple tournaments. It's a spree!


Too many details lacking for anyone here to be able to answer the OP's questions definitively. Did the players in question start the tournament? Did they finish a round or multiple rounds (that could/should be rated) before DNFing for the event?

Because there's a definite difference in how a player that registered but never showed up would be treated versus a player who began the tournament but failed to finish it. There's no official protocol (at least not that I've seen spelled out) regarding how to distribute any portion of an entry fee for a player that doesn't show at all. That's left entirely up to the TD. If the player completed a round, then I think the TD is obligated to list him and pay any associated fees to the PDGA.

The only real grey area I can see is a player who may have begun the first round but did not finish it. I've seen players like that listed in the results with all rounds 999, but I wouldn't be surprised if, with absolutely no scores to enter, a TD leaves him off the final results. I mean, how is a player that played 2 holes then ditched any different than one who never threw a shot? He gets no rating or points either way, so the player isn't losing out on anything if he's left off.

If anything, the only folks potentially affected by whether or not the player is officially listed are the ones in his division right around the cash line. And that's only if listing him versus not listing him affects the number of players paid out. Or if the TD included his entry in that division versus calling his entry general "added cash".

The concern about the PDGA missing out on a few bucks seems misplaced to me, and I'm all for the PDGA getting every dollar that they're entitled to.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yes, all sorts of possibilities. Including paperwork errors (my own specialty).

 

[BlazedOrangeHat]

The only real grey area I can see is a player who may have begun the first round but did not finish it. I've seen players like that listed in the results with all rounds 999, but I wouldn't be surprised if, with absolutely no scores to enter, a TD leaves him off the final results. I mean, how is a player that played 2 holes then ditched any different than one who never threw a shot? He gets no rating or points either way, so the player isn't losing out on anything if he's left off.

If anything, the only folks potentially affected by whether or not the player is officially listed are the ones in his division right around the cash line. And that's only if listing him versus not listing him affects the number of players paid out. Or if the TD included his entry in that division versus calling his entry general "added cash".

it creates an incomplete tournament history and innaccurate event count on the player's pdga page. personally i would never want to see an event left off a player's page even if every round was a 999.

 

[Cgkdisc]

If a player does not start the round, they are removed from the event results by the PDGA if the TD forgets to do it. If someone starts a round and doesn't finish, they get a 999 or 888 and will remain in the official results.

 

[Understable]

X 3 X a couple tournaments. It's a spree!


Too many details lacking for anyone here to be able to answer the OP's questions definitively. Did the players in question start the tournament? Did they finish a round or multiple rounds (that could/should be rated) before DNFing for the event?

Because there's a definite difference in how a player that registered but never showed up would be treated versus a player who began the tournament but failed to finish it. There's no official protocol (at least not that I've seen spelled out) regarding how to distribute any portion of an entry fee for a player that doesn't show at all. That's left entirely up to the TD. If the player completed a round, then I think the TD is obligated to list him and pay any associated fees to the PDGA.

The only real grey area I can see is a player who may have begun the first round but did not finish it. I've seen players like that listed in the results with all rounds 999, but I wouldn't be surprised if, with absolutely no scores to enter, a TD leaves him off the final results. I mean, how is a player that played 2 holes then ditched any different than one who never threw a shot? He gets no rating or points either way, so the player isn't losing out on anything if he's left off.

If anything, the only folks potentially affected by whether or not the player is officially listed are the ones in his division right around the cash line. And that's only if listing him versus not listing him affects the number of players paid out. Or if the TD included his entry in that division versus calling his entry general "added cash".

The concern about the PDGA missing out on a few bucks seems misplaced to me, and I'm all for the PDGA getting every dollar that they're entitled to.

You argument makes perfect sense. I just believe that if you paid to register, you should show up on the TD Report.

 

[DavidSauls]

On the other hand, I think the results should show those players who actually participated.

I'm not sure what's to be gained by showing the no-shows and the late withdrawals.

Among other things, if they were listed in the results, all the other players in their divisions would get extra points for beating them.

 

[Dan Ensor]

X 3 X a couple tournaments. It's a spree!


Too many details lacking for anyone here to be able to answer the OP's questions definitively. Did the players in question start the tournament? Did they finish a round or multiple rounds (that could/should be rated) before DNFing for the event?

Because there's a definite difference in how a player that registered but never showed up would be treated versus a player who began the tournament but failed to finish it. There's no official protocol (at least not that I've seen spelled out) regarding how to distribute any portion of an entry fee for a player that doesn't show at all. That's left entirely up to the TD. If the player completed a round, then I think the TD is obligated to list him and pay any associated fees to the PDGA.

The only real grey area I can see is a player who may have begun the first round but did not finish it. I've seen players like that listed in the results with all rounds 999, but I wouldn't be surprised if, with absolutely no scores to enter, a TD leaves him off the final results. I mean, how is a player that played 2 holes then ditched any different than one who never threw a shot? He gets no rating or points either way, so the player isn't losing out on anything if he's left off.

If anything, the only folks potentially affected by whether or not the player is officially listed are the ones in his division right around the cash line. And that's only if listing him versus not listing him affects the number of players paid out. Or if the TD included his entry in that division versus calling his entry general "added cash".

The concern about the PDGA missing out on a few bucks seems misplaced to me, and I'm all for the PDGA getting every dollar that they're entitled to.

PDGA sanctioning includes insurance, right? So if the player is on the course playing and possibly injuring theirself, that should be sufficient for the PDGA fee. Injury is quite possibly the reason for a lot of incomplete-round DNFs, even.

 

[DavidSauls]

I agree that a player who plays, even just one hole, should be listed. For all sorts of reasons.

I can also imagine a TD erroneously leaving him off, because he's not sure how to handle it, or assumes with no scores that there's nothing to report, or because he yanked the card out of the scoreboard and forgot about it, or who knows what other reasons. Deliberately doing so to save $2 is possible, but way down the probability list.

Of course, in the cited cases we don't know if those players played even one hole, or were no-shows, or late withdrawals, or even earlier withdrawals that the TD didn't pull off the registered list promptly. I know, when I've had to maintain the registered list manually---much less common, these days---the last week before the tournament gets hectic and some things get put off until afterward.

 

[JC17393]

You argument makes perfect sense. I just believe that if you paid to register, you should show up on the TD Report.

If you paid and showed up, even for just one hole, yes. If you paid and are never seen at the course on the day(s) of the tournament, no.

My only point in suggesting the grey area exists is, like David suggests, for the instances where a TD might leave off a DNF player for any number of non-nefarious reasons that don't amount to trying to scam anyone (PDGA, players) out of a few bucks. As a TD, I wouldn't leave off a player who played and quit, but I could see where a TD might do so. And the harm is negligible at most.

 

[DavidSauls]

If you want a really gray area, I played a tournament where a player signed in that morning, and never showed up at the first hole (he was to be on my card). We never did figure out what happened to him.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

If you want a really gray area, I played a tournament where a player signed in that morning, and never showed up at the first hole (he was to be on my card). We never did figure out what happened to him.

Flying Saucer Disc Golf... it's real. :|

 

[dibromin]

I wanted to enter my first tourney but it was $97 and not much payout. They paid $300 in awards. What happened to all the money they got from registrations and tips to the event and the TD?? That was like $10K

 

[John Rock]

Nunya