Ski Hill Courses....be honest

[optidiscic]

I would like to start a honest dialogue about courses that are set on ski hills. It's happening more and more now that global warming has shortened winters and ski hill owners are scrambling to pull year round cash. I have a lot of opinions about ski hill golf that I don't think the majority will agree with. I really don't care for it :thmbdown: I really would like to hear some others opinions about what they enjoy about these courses and what they don't like...I would like a real discussion and not just "I love this course or that course...tell me what you don't like or like and back it up. Thanks to serious posters in advance.

 

[dreadlock86]

hmm, interesting topic.

only one i've ever played was emory park in buffalo. probably not a good example though. i will be playing at the one in teton village in jackson hole next month though, i'll chime in then.

what don't you like about these courses? what DO you like about them?

 

[billnchristy]

I have never played one (imagine that, not many ski hills in ATL) but the downhill shots intrigue me because there is nothing more fun than chucking a putter 400+

 

[optidiscic]

I have played 5 ski hill courses......definetely a different type of DG experience...I enjoy some things about these courses but it's a real mixed bag for me...I just think once you get past the veil/gimickiness of the big throws that usually the DG experience is really not that pure or enjoyable.

 

[zenbot]

I would like to start a honest dialogue about courses that are set on ski hills. It's happening more and more now that global warming has shortened winters and ski hill owners are scrambling to pull year round cash. I have a lot of opinions about ski hill golf that I don't think the majority will agree with. I really don't care for it :thmbdown: I really would like to hear some others opinions about what they enjoy about these courses and what they don't like...I would like a real discussion and not just "I love this course or that course...tell me what you don't like or like and back it up. Thanks to serious posters in advance.

You've asked for our detailed opinions but didn't even offer your own. What are you hiding, man?


I've only played one ski course. Sunrise DGC in SoCal. (Yes, we have snow in SoCal.) I think it's not typical of seasonal courses as it just isn't up a slope down a slope. The 1st 9 plays pretty level and is carved out of woods that aren't used for ski slopes. What I do like about the ski run holes is that they are already cleared out and have distinct fairways.

 

[deadbody]

I've played 2, Hyland SSA (hate it) and GIants Ridge (love it) for me what I hate is when the distance and the uphill is the only difficulty. Hole 15 at Hyland is like 600 feet, up a steep slope, wide open. No skill to it other than can you throw it far. A lot of the holes there are like that, Open and long. That bores me and my small arm. Giants ridge is more technical. It is still long, but it has more woods, and is less about "Lets just climb up and down a ski hill" and more about a good DG experience.

 

[optidiscic]

There are always exceptions to the rule but this has been my experiences

Maintenance-practicially impossible to expect all of the grass to be mowed/maintained over 2 miles of ski hills..this leads to high grass/weeds/schule...that given the major distance your often throwing makes disc retrieval of on target throws a hassle

Fairways are usually wide but are difficult to stay on due to a few issue unique to the marriage of disc golf and mountains.....wind travels across the land and when it hits a mountain will updraft up a mountain (high speed gusts) or contour down a mountain (tailwind high speed) while this is often a lot of fun and requires knowledge of discs and playing the wind...it's not typical wind conditions and frankly impossible to master or tame...You are basically playing the percentages and hoping for the best...thus theres some luck involved...akin to playing in tropical storm wind conditions.. ..Also when throwing up these slopes your nose will undoubtedly be up and good luck if theres a headwind....typical uphill throws your reaching for a lighter disc....won't work way too flippy even if its a tee rex or XXX when your facing headwinds with your nose up. So you throw something heavy uphill etc etc these are often conditions that basically take skill out of the equation ...simply a matter of nature overpowering any skill, knowledge, or strategy you may have. Arguments can always be made that disc choice, technique, skill , strategy, can overcome the bigness of the mountain...I don't think this is always the case...Mother Nature wins a lot of the battles on the slopes from what I've seen. And when Mother Nature wins she takes your disc usually 200+ feet off the fairway down a wooded mountain slope with a 45 degree pitch...forget it...goner disc.

Throwaway discs is not you really playing your best DG....you really want to play with your favorite and best disc but I assume its like taking your hot gf to a party full of pre med athletes who are rich....you really don't wanna tempt fate if you have any insecurity about your game. I'd rather play my best discs and not punk out.

What inevitably happens is you throw conservatively and never truly rip a drive...it's a test of skill but I would rather throw a typical full throttle drive on top of the world hole than a series of fairways down a mountainside with danger L and R with winds and a 800 foot spread over a 200 foot elevation change. I know you think that sounds fun and it is I will admit I'm hooked and do find it challenging but once the gimmick wears off I d rather be playing real DG holes on a real Course.

Lets not forget about how ugly a ski hill looks in summer...sure the vistas are glorious...but your typically surrounded by ski lifts, equipment, rocks, roads, and blight in my opinion....thats been my experience at least....I prefer a real course.

Your hiking up and down a mountain..it's extremely grueling...some courses you actually climb from base to peak and get one or 2 big throws to enjoy after all that hard work...others you might get a ski lift ride up and play downhill but mountain terrain even downhill is quite gnarly....others you might get a lift ride but have to play down and then back up to ride back down...brutal! If you have not done it and your over 30 lets just say its a commitment...something else to consider...typically lack of trees means a lot of sun exposure in the middle of the day in the middle of the summer and your on a mountain hike trying to plat DG..ideally we could play these courses in late fall or late afternoon but often these courses are closed at these times.

I could rant on and probably will if this thread has legs.

I will admit I enjoy alot of the features of mountain golf but I feel I am in the minority when I speak about things I dont really like about ski hill golf.

I dont fancy myself an expert but I'm hardly a newcomer or clueless to how to play in wind and elevation either.

 

[cydisc]

Ski hill ground presents a lot of potential. The skilled designer recognizes that that type of ground is not limited to just the uphill and downhill.

 

[TheWCG]

I agree completely with cydisc. I think Disc golf is always more fun and interesting when elevation is utilized within a course. And It is up to the skilled designer to incorporate the lay of the land. There is always more land involved on a ski hill than just the ski runs themselves. I think its an excellent use of the land. And replying to this thread I'm thinking of Winter Park in Kewaunee, WI. Excellent use of the land and excellent course. Props to Superberry...

 

[Jimb]

Just one played.

I've played just the Nemacolin Resort ski slope course. It's an OK course.

There are two wooded holes, #4 & #5, running between the different slopes that are kind of cool. There are a couple holes that do make you turn the disc, #7 a big RHBH Hyzer tee shot and #9, a nice RHBH Anhyzer or roller.

The other 5 holes are pretty straight forward with decent length. And unfortunately, it doesn't even take real advantage of the big elevation drops. The ski slopes actually start at the top of the hill and you ride the lift back up when you're done. So the course starts at the top of the hill and only works about half way down to the bottom before turning and eventually coming back up the hill.

It's not one of my favorites, but it is kind of cool for a change. I also think that the novelty aspect of it makes it enjoyable.

I'm hoping to get to play The Wisp this year, too. Or maybe IUP College Lodge... that one's on an former ski slope, right?

 

[deBebbler]

Ski Hills Rawk

Maintenance-practicially impossible to expect all of the grass to be mowed/maintained over 2 miles of ski hills..this leads to high grass/weeds/schule...that given the major distance your often throwing makes disc retrieval of on target throws a hassle

A hassle? Seriously? It's called "the rough" for a reason. Furthermore, a lot of ski hills have wooded slopes that have little to no growth on the floor. Most of the hill courses around here have NO maintenance other than trash collection. It makes the course more of a living entity than a man-made path.

Your game will be very different in April than in August, and that challenge is wonderful.

Fairways are usually wide but are difficult to stay on due to a few issue unique to the marriage of disc golf and mountains.....wind travels across the land and when it hits a mountain will updraft up a mountain (high speed gusts) or contour down a mountain (tailwind high speed) while this is often a lot of fun and requires knowledge of discs and playing the wind...it's not typical wind conditions and frankly impossible to master or tame...You are basically playing the percentages and hoping for the best...thus theres some luck involved...akin to playing in tropical storm wind conditions.. ..Also when throwing up these slopes your nose will undoubtedly be up and good luck if theres a headwind....typical uphill throws your reaching for a lighter disc....won't work way too flippy even if its a tee rex or XXX when your facing headwinds with your nose up. So you throw something heavy uphill etc etc these are often conditions that basically take skill out of the equation ...simply a matter of nature overpowering any skill, knowledge, or strategy you may have. Arguments can always be made that disc choice, technique, skill , strategy, can overcome the bigness of the mountain...I don't think this is always the case...Mother Nature wins a lot of the battles on the slopes from what I've seen. And when Mother Nature wins she takes your disc usually 200+ feet off the fairway down a wooded mountain slope with a 45 degree pitch...forget it...goner disc.

Yes wind is a challenge, "difficult to master," but this argument of discs is rather absurd. I will keep a disc in my bag if I'm throwing over water (which there is precious little of near most ski hills), but if you throw it down the hill, you retrieve it, just like you would any other throw. Is your problem that it seems too much like work?

Red text is whining. Blue text is total bu!!s#!t.

Throwaway discs is not you really playing your best DG....I'd rather play my best discs and not punk out.

Punk out. You said it, not me.

What inevitably happens is you throw conservatively and never truly rip a drive...it's a test of skill but I would rather throw a typical full throttle drive on top of the world hole than a series of fairways down a mountainside with danger L and R with winds and a 800 foot spread over a 200 foot elevation change. I know you think that sounds fun and it is I will admit I'm hooked and do find it challenging but once the gimmick wears off I d rather be playing real DG holes on a real Course.

Gimmick? It is the hole. How is a drive from atop a hill a gimmick, but throwing over water, (or a stand of trees, or other obstacle) on "a real hole on a real course playing real disc golf" not a gimmick?

Lets not forget about how ugly a ski hill looks in summer...sure the vistas are glorious...but your typically surrounded by ski lifts, equipment, rocks, roads, and blight in my opinion....thats been my experience at least....I prefer a real course.

Hogwash. Every word.

Blight? Every n00b I take to a ski hill (and mind you, they are locals, so they have seen this place before) remark on the majesty, or the beauty, or some such. Never have I heard, "Oh my God, look how garish that chairlift is!"

Your hiking up and down a mountain..it's extremely grueling...some courses you actually climb from base to peak and get one or 2 big throws to enjoy after all that hard work...others you might get a ski lift ride up and play downhill but mountain terrain even downhill is quite gnarly....others you might get a lift ride but have to play down and then back up to ride back down...brutal! If you have not done it and your over 30 lets just say its a commitment...something else to consider...typically lack of trees means a lot of sun exposure in the middle of the day in the middle of the summer and your on a mountain hike trying to plat DG..ideally we could play these courses in late fall or late afternoon but often these courses are closed at these times.

Sometimes you climb the course twice in one round!!!

Waaaaaah. Yes, you probably aren't going to trudge some 18 hole ski hill course and then go to the dinner theater directly after, certainly not during some July afternoon, but big deal. Take a shower.

I am hella overweight, and I jump for joy (well, OK, it's more of a hop) when I have enough time to hit one of our local ski hills. I almost look forward to the fact that I will be a sweaty mess. Makes me feel I really earned those few birdies I get.

Next thing we know you will want a golf cart.

I will admit I enjoy alot of the features of mountain golf but I feel I am in the minority when I speak about things I dont really like about ski hill golf.

Based on the longevity of many of these courses, I would think that you are in the minority.

I dont fancy myself an expert but I'm hardly a newcomer or clueless to how to play in wind and elevation either.

I don't think you clueless, but definitely prejudiced. You reiterated many times that ski hill golf isn't a "real course." I think you just didn't like your score....and I can sympathize with that

Quite frankly, I initially fell in love with DG because I could enjoy the game of golf without enduring much of the pretentious attitude you are displaying here.

 

[optidiscic]

IUP is on a former ski hill and is probably the most enjoyable round of DG I have ever played.....not a typical ski hill course

 

[WillACarpenter]

Only one I've ever played was Black Diamond DGC @ Emery Park in South Wales (South of Buffalo) and I really liked the course. To be honest it was much less steep that I expected it to be, and I thought it was a fantastic place to enjoy this sport.

\/\/

 

[optidiscic]

Wow I won't get into a flame war with you....I said I wanted a dialogue and I mentioned that I based my opinions on my experiences. I knew this coming and its all good. I doubt weve played the same courses. I did make it clear that the maintenance is a problem in the fairways...not off? It's understandable too...who wants to ride a mower on a 30 degree slope or weed wack a mountain....thats an impossible feat regardless it still sucks to throw a good shot on a ski hill and land dead center of the fairway and still have a tough time finding your disc.

I stand by my points about mother nature having the ability to flip the most stable disc in your bag and throw a disc 200 ft down wooded rockslide slopes off the fairways to never be found again (again my experiences on some courses Ive played) I have played holes where I threw an overstable putter nose down straight down the slope mearly 2 feet off the contour of the slope and the upwind lifts the disc flips it upward into a paper plate and throws it like a 130g stingray nose up.....don't tell me mother nature can't win the battle versus disc golf equipment, technique, and strategy. Often in DG you are playing the odds and ski hill golf is no different it's just the penalty is quite severe (lost disc, dangerous hikes into abyss etc... again I don't know if weve played the same courses)

I don't think I am whining I am just trying to see what people think about ski hill disc golf....I was actually pleased to throw a 74 on a blue 9000+ par 67 course at Blue Mtn In PA....despite not knowing where I was throwing much of the day....by some miracle we didnt lose a disc either although we had several search and rescue missions. It was a strenuous day and honestly I would like another crack at the mountain but I dont feel I am drawn to these courses as strongly as I am to well designed permamnent courses. I have played Aspen Mtn, Seven Springs, IUP College Lodge, Blue Mountain, Campgaw Reservation and have a few others on my radar...I wont stop playing them I just don't really enjoy them not much. These courses have some great holes and some great moments but on a whole I don't really find the experience to be all that.....oh and stone access roads permeate ski hills it's reality and I dont find stone roads to be nice fairways...although they are better than the high grass on the the non stone access road fairways.

 

[wolito]

If the course just have the holes playing up and down the open slope area, without using much of the trees aroundm then I might pass. If the course was designed well and was a pay course, then perhaps. I certianly can understand trying to bring in extra money.

 

[sackja]

Snowbowl in Flagstaff is fun for a once in a while throw but I wouldn't want that type of course to be my usual home course. Too brutal for me for an everyday course.

 

[cydisc]

I agree completely with cydisc. I think Disc golf is always more fun and interesting when elevation is utilized within a course. And It is up to the skilled designer to incorporate the lay of the land. There is always more land involved on a ski hill than just the ski runs themselves. I think its an excellent use of the land. And replying to this thread I'm thinking of Winter Park in Kewaunee, WI. Excellent use of the land and excellent course. Props to Superberry...

This is one of my top 10 courses and I hope to play it again this summer. It's a ski/sledding facility, but only a small fraction is actually played on the slopes. Very good use of the available land.

 

[zenbot]

I think a ski course is as good or as bad as the thought put into it. There are a lot of factors that can make it an awesome course which could, with the wrong vision, make it a really chitty course.

 

[optidiscic]

another factor is often the tees are not permt and often less than desireable.....blue mtn much to its credit has great permt tees..never saw that on a ski hill course b4.

 

[deBebbler]

Wow I won't get into a flame war with you....I said I wanted a dialogue and I mentioned that I based my opinions on my experiences. I knew this coming and its all good. I doubt weve played the same courses. I did make it clear that the maintenance is a problem in the fairways...not off? It's understandable too...who wants to ride a mower on a 30 degree slope or weed wack a mountain....thats an impossible feat regardless it still sucks to throw a good shot on a ski hill and land dead center of the fairway and still have a tough time finding your disc.

Yeah, I may have been a little harsh, but the whole "real golf" thing just pissed me off, more so for the fact that you did it more than once.

Different strokes, and all that.

I stand by my points about mother nature having the ability to flip the most stable disc in your bag and throw a disc 200 ft down wooded rockslide slopes off the fairways to never be found again (again my experiences on some courses Ive played) I have played holes where I threw an overstable putter nose down straight down the slope mearly 2 feet off the contour of the slope and the upwind lifts the disc flips it upward into a paper plate and throws it like a 130g stingray nose up.....don't tell me mother nature can't win the battle versus disc golf equipment, technique, and strategy. Often in DG you are playing the odds and ski hill golf is no different it's just the penalty is quite severe (lost disc, dangerous hikes into abyss etc... again I don't know if weve played the same courses)

We certainly haven't played the same courses, as I've never seen the paper plate thing, and I'm sure you've played more courses than me. Lost discs do suck, I will certainly agree. It just struck me that you were saying that playing ski hill courses meant you were throwing any and all strategy away, and only blind a$$ luck would get you in the basket.

I'm not saying that Mother Nature can't win, I'm just saying that it doesn't matter that you are playing a ski hill course. She can do that anywhere.

I don't think I am whining I am just trying to see what people think about ski hill disc golf....I was actually pleased to throw a 74 on a blue 9000+ par 67 course at Blue Mtn In PA....despite not knowing where I was throwing much of the day....by some miracle we didnt lose a disc either although we had several search and rescue missions. It was a strenuous day and honestly I would like another crack at the mountain but I dont feel I am drawn to these courses as strongly as I am to well designed permamnent courses. I have played Aspen Mtn, Seven Springs, IUP College Lodge, Blue Mountain, Campgaw Reservation and have a few others on my radar...I wont stop playing them I just don't really enjoy them not much. These courses have some great holes and some great moments but on a whole I don't really find the experience to be all that.....oh and stone access roads permeate ski hills it's reality and I dont find stone roads to be nice fairways...although they are better than the high grass on the the non stone access road fairways.

The whining thing came from the "tropical storm winds" hyperbole, which I thought was heavy handed. And you did say it negated any skill or strategy, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

The reasons I like to play ski hills, and will drive quite a ways to do so, passing many courses along the way, are many of the things you list as detractions.

1) It is strenuous. My first course was on a relatively flat course in Lansing, and I remember it clear as a bell how taken I was with the fact that I was climbing up and down hills to traverse the course. When my buddy asked me if I wanted to go Frisbee Golfing, my mental picture was of long flat grassy links that I would be walking and throwing a disc down. It didn't really appeal to me, and the only reason I went was because I was bored. When I saw how these holes were "off the beaten path", my interest exploded. The sweat never bothered me.

2) Lack of traffic. Because it is a workout, a lot of the negative elements are not seen on the courses dawdling around interfering with my round. On occasion, on some hills, I am the only one there. It is nice when it happens.

The flat course around me always seems to have a drunken bum or two staggering around. That I can do without.

3) Elevation. Obviously. But not always in the most obvious spot. I have found that my favorite hole on a course never seems to be the Big Bomber hole (although I will bitch if there isn't one. I didn't climb this bastard for nothing.) Usually it is a hole with many peaks and troughs between the tee and the basket, but fairly level comparing the start and finish. They are slick uses of terrain and usually a hole I score very poorly on initally.

I will also say that I hate uphill holes because I suck at them.

4) You are punished for bad throws. And you should be.

---

That's it, really. They are a challenge, and I feel a nice sense of accomplishment when I'm done, no matter what my score is. And I must say, that I love the way they look, no matter how much equipment is around.