smaller greens?

[mhulkman]

Hey everyone, I was looking for some feedback about making putting a little more challenging while rewarding accuracy over power at the same time. In ball golf, even at the highest level of competition a 5ft putt is never a gimmie. But in disc golf the better players are automatic out to as much as 40ft. Im helping out with installation on a course where almost every hole has trees and/or drop offs inside the 30ft circle. These trees are 5-15ft wide and their branches with needles come down to ground level. Several holes also have death putt potential. These small greens reward accuracy, like on one hole you have an open look for birdie from 4:00 to 8:00 and 11:00 to 2:00. The other areas are trees so even tho your only 15ft away you will be putting from your knees under the tree, or maybe sidearm, stretching out from the side of the tree, or behind it and throwing a 15ft thumber over a 8-20ft tall tree. So if you are accurate enough to hit the right areas you can score well, but miss that 4:00 to 8:00 area and the putt becomes much more difficult and not a gimmie. So smaller greens would give some score spreading potential as well. This course is set up to reward the accurate player far more than the power thrower. Only 2 par 3's are over 310ft and the 5 par 4's are 525-625ft.
Just curious what designers think about implementing smaller greens and rewarding accuracy over power more often in there future designs? Will tighter greens make my course seem gimmicky or are they better as a score spreader?

 

[thirtydirtybirds]

It's not the same as golf. "The green" in this game is to indicate where putts must be stationary, you can "putt" from pretty much any distance you want. Golf you can't really putt from 5 feet off the cut.

That said, having baskets that close to trees on every hole doesn't seem like good design. I don't mind trees being in the circle, but when it limits the ability to have a reasonable shot from inside 30 then I think it's not so fun. What about a well played shot that hits a root and kicks under the lowest branch? That's not fair to me. It's hard enough for most players to get within comfortable putting distance on wooded courses, why punish good shots with bad luck? Death putts are fine, rocks are fine, obstructions are fine, but all together all the time isn't to me.

 

[joecoin]

I prefer greens that are tucked away in a circlee of trees or rocks, so that you have to hit a relatively narrow opening to get to the green.

If there are trees on the green I don't think they should have branches touching the ground. I think it's okay (and challenging) to have to kneel under branches to putt.

 

[IHearChains]

I think this could be a useful tool for redesign of a tweener hole on an existing course. If there's no option to move it longer to make it a legit par 4 (a better choice IMO), then move the pin into a location like you described. What used to be a boring 100-150 foot wide open approach shot becomes much more challenging, and could add score separation.

 

[etdefender19]

Don't forget to add a windmill and a clown's mouth

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[DavidSauls]

It depends on the execution.

Creating a green where one side is favored, because putting is easier than the other side, can be good. Provided that the favored side can be hit by skill, not luck, which depends on how the rest of the hole is laid out, and particularly the distance from which the green is approached. Otherwise, if it's mostly random whether you end up on the favored side, it's no good.

Plus, if those obstacles are located where many approaches carom off them---sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse---it may be too random.

The other issue in execution is just how hard the putts on the unfavored side are. If they're difficult enough that people just lay up with little 15' pitches, nobody's going to like it.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's a mistake to try to emulate golf putting statistics, or to equate golf distances with disc golf distances.

The consideration should be, does it make OUR game better?

 

[DavidSauls]

It's a mistake to try to emulate golf putting statistics, or to equate golf distances with disc golf distances.

The consideration should be, does it make OUR game better?

Sidebar: Is it odd that in all the "putting is too easy" threads and par threads where people compare putting distances in golf and disc golf, they don't do the same with driving distances?

Nobody ever says, We should change disc golf so our par-4s are as long as golf's par-4s.

 

[_MTL_]

It's a mistake to try to emulate golf putting statistics, or to equate golf distances with disc golf distances.

The consideration should be, does it make OUR game better?

Agreed. Scoring separation comes in the first 90% of the hole. It's nearly impossible to create scoring separation around the green and maintain fairness without uncontrollable features such as elevation, water, etc.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Agreed. Scoring separation comes in the first 90% of the hole. It's nearly impossible to create scoring separation around the green and maintain fairness without uncontrollable features such as elevation, water, etc.

Don't give up. Putting related concepts still to be tested. Note: doesn't include smaller basket or target zone.

 

[DavidSauls]

Agreed. Scoring separation comes in the first 90% of the hole. It's nearly impossible to create scoring separation around the green and maintain fairness without uncontrollable features such as elevation, water, etc.

Only if you define the green as the 10-meter circle. And only at top levels---at my duffer level, there can be good separation between those who putt reliably at 25-30', and me.

 

[biscoe]

Don't give up. Putting related concepts still to be tested. Note: doesn't include smaller basket or target zone.

why does this fill me with trepidation?

 

[Cgkdisc]

why does this fill me with trepidation?

It shouldn't.

 

[_MTL_]

It scares me a bit. At some point we just need to accept that the challenge of our game is to birdie everything.

 

[DavidSauls]

It scares me a bit. At some point we just need to accept that the challenge of our game is to birdie everything.

Don't go there.

 

[Cgkdisc]

It scares me a bit. At some point we just need to accept that the challenge of our game is to birdie everything.

The primary question is: Are there compelling reasons to figure out a way to make putting more challenging either specifically for elite pro play, or for all pro divisions, or for all competition players?

Without this directive to really try to find a way coming from the PDGA, manufacturers/sponsors or Tour Directors like Dodge, there's no compelling reason to do the research and testing. Brainstorming and testing ideas within the Game Development Team at minimum become curiosities, or at best, an idea might become an element in a disc golf variant that some like to play similar to night golf or mulligan variant.

 

[_MTL_]

I'm all for testing stuff. Just needs to be a C tiers and not during majors.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I'm all for testing stuff. Just needs to be a C tiers and not during majors.

If the directive is for elite play then the goal should be officially applying it in a Major. But I agree that sufficient testing should be done at lower levels with enough time in advance for the elite players to practice before that Major.

 

[1978]

I think wooden posts that knock disc down right next to the basket instead of allowing them to flare OB are the future of our sport. We should test this at every major.