Stop asking if you are outside the circle!

Is it sportsman like to blame one's failures on the entire card?
I don't think anyone here has defended the guy who blamed his failures on his card. In fact it's been overwhelmingly condemned. It is in fact crazy to me that that wasn't the more serious issue in the original post. However, his unsportsmanlike actions doesn't defend unsportsmanlike actions from other card members. And I do believe being able to appropriately answer a simple question asked by a cardmate would constitute sportsmanship. If they are clearly at 45' they are outside of the circle. If they are clearly standing 20' from the basket, they are inside the circle. If they are right around the edge, they should step it off. But I am not going to get annoyed/angry that someone might not have good depth perception in that way. Sometimes players just want their cardmates to input on their lie, just like they aren't going to tell their card they are in bounds, throw, and pick up the old disc without letting the card verify the lie first.
 
[...] just like they aren't going to tell their card they are in bounds, throw, and pick up the old disc without letting the card verify the lie first.
Well, somebody must have at some point.



"806.02 Out-of-Bounds

I. If the thrower moves the disc before a determination regarding its out-of-bounds status has been made, the disc is considered to be out-of-bounds."
 
Well, somebody must have at some point.



"806.02 Out-of-Bounds

I. If the thrower moves the disc before a determination regarding its out-of-bounds status has been made, the disc is considered to be out-of-bounds."
I know of at least one fairly well known player to whom this is applicable.
 
However, his unsportsmanlike actions doesn't defend unsportsmanlike actions from other card members. And I do believe being able to appropriately answer a simple question asked by a cardmate would constitute sportsmanship.

What exactly was the unsportsmanlike conduct on the rest of the card, as described in the original post?

I suggest you re-read the original post.
 
I think I'm going to carry around a 34' strand of yarn with a mark 2" from either end to symbolize 33'10" and it'll be easy to rule in/out. Lighter than a tape measure and I'll video the making of it for clarity.
 
I think I'm going to carry around a 34' strand of yarn with a mark 2" from either end to symbolize 33'10" and it'll be easy to rule in/out. Lighter than a tape measure and I'll video the making of it for clarity.
I actually carry something similar, but it's for painting circle one for tournaments I TD. Has a hook on one end that I slide around the pole base, and a large D ring on the other that I clip over my paint stick. Swivels as I walk around the circle. Marking paint has gotten so expensive that I usually just put a foot long hash mark every 5 feet or so, but it eliminates the problem of guess work. I don't expect every small C-Tier to mark it, but I think it makes the course look better and is beneficial to players. I carry in my disc golf bag because I'd probably forget it or lose it if it wasn't safely tucked away in my side pocket of my disc golf bag.

Funny side story. I saw Chris Dickerson whip out a tape measure at Mahr Park to settle a CTP debate in the KY State Championships one year. He was confident he was closer, and he was right after the measurement. lol
 
I actually carry something similar, but it's for painting circle one for tournaments I TD. Has a hook on one end that I slide around the pole base, and a large D ring on the other that I clip over my paint stick. Swivels as I walk around the circle. Marking paint has gotten so expensive that I usually just put a foot long hash mark every 5 feet or so, but it eliminates the problem of guess work. I don't expect every small C-Tier to mark it, but I think it makes the course look better and is beneficial to players. I carry in my disc golf bag because I'd probably forget it or lose it if it wasn't safely tucked away in my side pocket of my disc golf bag.

Funny side story. I saw Chris Dickerson whip out a tape measure at Mahr Park to settle a CTP debate in the KY State Championships one year. He was confident he was closer, and he was right after the measurement. lol
Now I need to make something similar so I can go out and mark C1 at our events so we don't have to deal with this debate, though I'd rather have a more permanent solution like the whiskers, at least for the main course in the area.
 
If technology can establish boundaries for pet collars using gps surely we aren't far away from cell phones being able to "paint" a 10 meter circle around baskets and an alarm would go off entering it .
That might be a ways off so I propose no moving beyond your lie within the circle. Meaning you can't jump putt anywhere near circle's edge. If you jump you must land in circle 2 territory.
 
What exactly was the unsportsmanlike conduct on the rest of the card, as described in the original post?

I suggest you re-read the original post.
There was no unsportsmanlike conduct from the rest of the card in the original post. However, @philstine had mentioned they believed that being able to answer a question in regards to verifying a lie would fall under the guidelines of the Spirit of the Game section of the Competition Manual. To which you asked:
Is it sportsman like to blame one's failures on the entire card?
I already mentioned that the tantrum thrown by the putter in the original post is inexcusable, and frankly embarrassing to the sport. Personally, I would have called out the behavior, and probably had a discussion with the TD after the round, just so that they are aware of said behavior. Personally, I do think refusing to answer a question in verifying a lie, at least when the answer is clear, feels disingenuous to me. I can tell if someone is 40' out or within 25'. So I tend to agree with @philstine in those scenarios and was mentioning that unsportsmanlike behavior of the putter wouldn't give me carte blanche to be unsportsmanlike in response.

Now if it's a close call, or there is a disagreement with the answer, I also think it is reasonable to suggest they step it off. Or if someone is just wanting to avoid arguments, I think suggest the person step it off is fine. But defaulting to answering with a "No" even if they are way outside the circle, which some people seem to be advocating, feels weird to me.
 
I have never really run across someone asking, if it is not close. Too close to eyeball and honestly..."stepping it off" is NOT an answer, nor is the guesswork of cardmates. Measuring IS the answer and this is part of the problem with the rule.
 
Funny side story. I saw Chris Dickerson whip out a tape measure at Mahr Park to settle a CTP debate in the KY State Championships one year. He was confident he was closer, and he was right after the measurement. lol
CTPs are easy to be accurate on. Much easier than a circle determination.

Just walk to the basket. Look at both of them from the basket opposite each one.

People waste so much time walking back and forth between two lies, just walk to the damn basket. You'll be able to feel certain of the decision to within a few inches. I've never been wrong about which disc is closer when looking at them from behind the pin.
 
I have never really run across someone asking, if it is not close. Too close to eyeball and honestly..."stepping it off" is NOT an answer, nor is the guesswork of cardmates. Measuring IS the answer and this is part of the problem with the rule.
Hence why every course should have whiskers at the C1 line. They are very inexpensive and nearly harmless to the environment if made with biodegradable materials.
 
Hence why every course should have whiskers at the C1 line. They are very inexpensive and nearly harmless to the environment if made with biodegradable materials.
Well, that sounds good, but the actual application is considerably more complicated. As a club, we are responsible for a certain amount of upkeep and maintenance, on about 7 parks or 9 courses. Most involve different park systems and municipalities. Some of those have to do the installation by rules or guidelines. Some of them, with proper notice, appropriate requesting and meeting attendance/presentation by a club rep, will pay for the whiskers. Add the cost of new ones every year or two and their employee resources to install them and the cost is not really "inexpensive". It is sometimes a cost at the expense of other opportunities for the course. The other parks will have to rely on clubs to pay for and install whiskers. We are non profit and this expense DOES come at a forgone opportunity for our disc golf community. So....we agree, but it is not as simple as many might think.
 
Well, that sounds good, but the actual application is considerably more complicated. As a club, we are responsible for a certain amount of upkeep and maintenance, on about 7 parks or 9 courses. Most involve different park systems and municipalities. Some of those have to do the installation by rules or guidelines. Some of them, with proper notice, appropriate requesting and meeting attendance/presentation by a club rep, will pay for the whiskers. Add the cost of new ones every year or two and their employee resources to install them and the cost is not really "inexpensive". It is sometimes a cost at the expense of other opportunities for the course. The other parks will have to rely on clubs to pay for and install whiskers. We are non profit and this expense DOES come at a forgone opportunity for our disc golf community. So....we agree, but it is not as simple as many might think.
I understand. But that's where a rouge member of the community, such as myself, installs whiskers without telling anyone.
 
I just say, i can't tell, better walk it off, usually after a couple of walk offs they just putt it. its not my job to know if your in or out, as can you really do not know for sure unless you measure it.
 
Require folks to have a tape measure, rangefinder, or 10m length of twine or braided fishing line. Why on earth would you ever ask someone else to judge if you're inside the circle? This is simply childish.
 
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