Tell Me What I Need to Work on

[sidewinder22]

The door frame drill should definitely help. I have some other stuff I still need to edit and make more space on my hard drive. This vid below should also help:

 

[tylerc]

so I went and did some field work today, slowing things down and trying to get my arm, hip, shoulders planes to all be parallel. I worked on the door frame drill last night and I was trying to get into that position where I could get a good push with the back leg and it felt super awkward and like I was doing it very wrong.. I was forced off balance a lot so im not sure if I was doing it correctly. I feel like my throw was smoother when throwing flat but it felt awkward and I lost a lot of distance. then when I went to throw a hyzer I could not throw them consistently for some reason.. a guy on r/discgolf suggested giving up on the Swedish style lower pull through.. but for some reason when throwing hyzers I would pull the disc hyzer then flatten it in front of me then from the right pec I would turn back to hyzer.. so I think I will figure out flat throws first..
also I tried to stop myself from crashing over on the release/follow through.. I could not figure it out for some reason im not sure why I do that. even trying not to do it and sacrificing tons of distance I do it some

 

[danostrowski]

You'll lose distance at first. Don't worry, keep working on your form. Eventually it will come back. Look at me, I can throw my putters 600ft, now! (jk)

Also, if you're wondering what you're doing wrong, take a video and post it. You and I don't have enough posts to access the secret forum where they make fun of member vids, anyhow.

 

[tylerc]

hah true ill get a video up tomorrow again hopefully.. but I think every couple days I go back and laugh at videos of me throwing backhand to start lol.. it was embarrassing I started throwing over 300 sidearm and like 75 backhand now I throw both about 425 on average

 

[sidewinder22]

so I went and did some field work today, slowing things down and trying to get my arm, hip, shoulders planes to all be parallel. I worked on the door frame drill last night and I was trying to get into that position where I could get a good push with the back leg and it felt super awkward and like I was doing it very wrong.. I was forced off balance a lot so im not sure if I was doing it correctly.

Should always feel very balanced. If you compare your form to the quad of the pros, there's a subtle yet very different way the rear foot pushes, your foot looks like it's slipping forward losing leverage, where the pros roll the foot maintaining torque through the instep. Your balance/hips also gets stuck too far behind the front heel, so that's where your posture collapses and the shoulders end up over past your front foot instead of finishing more upright and balanced.

 

[tylerc]

ok I will do more study and field work tomorrow working on this balance! thank you very much for the input!

 

[sidewinder22]

First pic in the reachback shows Markus in a pretty balanced and athletic stance notice the squeeze between the knees, and his whole spine is braced against the front leg where you are in classic horse stance and your upper spine is tilted over already. In a rear view it would easy to see your spine is balanced behind your heels, where Markus has more forward athletic spine lean toward the toes. His hips/butt/lower spine are leading the throw and has a much longer reachback because of that, notice we can still see his shoulder blade.

Second pic in the power zone shows Markus in phenomenal posture, the hips and shoulders are totally perpendicular the spine, and the spine is perfectly upright with the shoulders stacked over the hips, hips stacked over the knees. Where if we take at look at your posture, your rear knee is extended which pushed your upper spine over forward instead of the whole spine and has unwounded your torque, and now look at the angle of the shoulders with the spine they can't rotate perpendicular to the spine anymore so your swing plane has to change to compensate. The posture between the hips and shoulders you are more trapezoidal(collapsing) than square.

Third pic in the finish show Markus still braced against the front foot/leg and perfectly balanced and stacked, the shoulders are still perpendicular to the spine and behind the front foot, and the rear hip/leg have come forward. Now take a gander at your finish, your front knee has collapsed past the front foot, your rear thigh is almost parallel to the spine(Markus is almost perpendicular), your shoulders are past your front foot. So if were to look at where your weight is here, your weight is spread out across almost the length of your body with the head way forward and rear leg way behind almost like a superman pose. Now look at Markus's weight all compacted against the inside of the front foot.

 

[tylerc]

wow!.. that's awesome! thanks that makes it very obvious what I need to work on! I noticed that my knees were bending in more today like markus in picture 1 and I thought at first that looks weird but then I thought about the lead card at eo video and all of them did that as well so I assumed it was good but I must not quite be braced enough against that front foot/ leg enough. I got an app on my ipod called coachmyvideo where I can draw lines like yours here on video I just took in the field so I will be using that tomorrow to work on some things! thanks so much for taking the time out to help.

 

[danostrowski]

Bracing against that front leg is kind of "hard to imagine with your muscles" until you do something like the door frame drill, IMO, so I'd keep working on that to get the feel for the brace.

 

[tylerc]

I just finished a very frustrating field work session of like 2 hours. I was working on bracing against that front leg and getting my spine more vertical but lost a ton of distance then I realized that during the pull my hand was on the front of the disc so my wrist was all ready uncocked.. then I realized I was still getting my front shoulder lifted way up and fixed that then I was crashing over again. it was frustrating and it was like every time I fixed one thing 2 more things went wrong. I felt so comfortable and consistent now I don't know what that disc could do.. I released some way right which was weird I have never really done that. and it was all together terribly frustrating. I had some throws that felt pretty good once I slowed down a lot though.. some as in 5. but one question I was messing around with my stance last night to achieve a more vertical spine position and found that if I spread my feet more about a foot and a half past shoulder length on either side it makes it easier but when throwing like that I lost a lot of control and my right foot started to hurt, so how wide should my stance be?
oh yea also should the disc be at the same height during the entire pull through? that video of markus he starts low then flattens out? and a guy on r/discgolf also said that I should raise my pull through but that feels really awkward.. so should pull through height be just whatever feels comfortable or is there a correct height?

sorry for the wall of text

 

[sidewinder22]

Stance width varies with forward speed, but starting from a standstill feet slightly wider than shoulder width or a nice balanced athletic stance. You should not be hurting yourself, it should be a smooth transition settling your weight. Widening the stance is going to stress the foot/leg more. You need to load your shoulder. Everything you are saying makes sense. Did your shots that went to the right go relatively far? Have you tried the door frame drill?

Regarding pull through height it varies to your center of gravity and spine angle, you should be swinging through your center.

 

[tylerc]

ok so I did the door frame drill for a bit experimenting different pull heights and I think the height I have is pretty good. ya the shots that came out way right didn't really go noticeably further but they turned over discs I usually don't.. and at one point I saw my comets turn into rollers and knew I was doing something wrong.. I never knew they could do that hah. so standing my stance will be just wider than shoulder width. ok so my stance before was good foot width wise? but I think I was getting the weight braced a bit better but its not yet there. also when doing the door frame drill I can push off the back foot and turn/pull with the shoulder and pull very hard on the frame. is that what happens at the start of the throw? its easy to pull that hard with a seemingly unmoving force but with a disc of relatively weightless I couldn't see pulling/ pushing that hard with the back leg and shoulder?

 

[sidewinder22]

You should feel the butt/hips/weight leading the pull against the door frame, and the door frame pulling your shoulder. The shoulder/arm should be loose and the rear foot is just holding leverage. You need to make your arm/disc heavy, loose, like a wet towel hanging from your shoulder.
Free your mind!

 

[tylerc]

hahahahahaahahaha thanks for the wonderful matrix reference lol it helps explain things haha
:clap::clap::clap:

I will try to figure out this heavy arm and door frame thing next time I can get to the field hah

 

[T Short]

Thanks for everybody`s input.....Sw , I have`nt got to the feild pratice yet but I think I totally get it awsome job again. You always seem to have a good eye for every problem. I`m thinking along the same line as Tylerc, As far as the line height of the pull. I`ve heard pull low to high. I`ve heard pull level. I`ve heard keep it higher with the shoulders? I`ve seen what looks to me like some of the pro`s was taking it high, low to level? And on a seperate note what was the song & artist that was banned on your video? I really liked that video, those are some awsome bombs. thanks.....

 

[Uncle Dougie]

Bracing against that front leg is kind of "hard to imagine with your muscles" until you do something like the door frame drill, IMO, so I'd keep working on that to get the feel for the brace.

It kind of reminds me of the feeling when someone says, "Hey, catch this 50lb box!", and you go and brace your leg tight and prepare to catch a box with nothing but air inside.

Kind of like that?

 

[danostrowski]

It kind of reminds me of the feeling when someone says, "Hey, catch this 50lb box!", and you go and brace your leg tight and prepare to catch a box with nothing but air inside.

Kind of like that?

I think that's the goal, is that you should be able to recall what you're doing in the door drill (similar to the imaginary box) to load and release, but really I meant was... when sw22 says "brace against the front leg"... in an open throwing stance, it's hard to know which muscles to activate and how they should be angled. How does it feel.

In the box case it would be like someone said "brace against the balls of your feet" and you say ... "wha?" And then they say "OK, catch this 50lb box" and you automatically do that and then you get it. That's how the door drill works, for me: it makes it obvious because you just automatically get that leg braced in case you slip and let go of the door.


(Another term that's confusing, IMO, is "weight shift." It's more like power shift. You don't mirror your legs or even weight distribution in the forward swing BECAUSE you're bracing against the front leg, which you're not doing with the rear leg. That's another thing that becomes obvious in the door drill. It's more like "power shift" or something. It's the beginning of a weight shift, but it's cut short, or at least altered, by the brace.)

 

[T Short]

I`m likin` this thread more & more. I`m also not 100% on the foot placement? A comfortable wigth,O.K. (the athletic posture) - but is there a correct foot/feet positioning?:\

 

[danostrowski]

I`m likin` this thread more & more. I`m also not 100% on the foot placement? A comfortable wigth,O.K. (the athletic posture) - but is there a correct foot/feet positioning?:\

Mentioned elsewhere, I think, you should have a closed stance. Try having your front foot perpendicular to where you want to throw, and then lining your back foot up with back toes in line with front foot's heel. A "staggered stance." In addition, I usually point my back foot's toes off a little to my left (I'm RHBH), maybe 40-45 degrees.

 

[Tpro]

Lets get up, I can help.