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The Kinetic Sequence
- Thread starter sidewinder22
- Start date
What do you mean when you say that the "shoulder slows forward" (image 5 in original post in this thread) and "elbow slows forward" (image 6 in original post in this thread)?
What does slowing forward mean?
seedlings
* Ace Member *
The most energy possible to put into a throw would be if the body stopped completely when the disc left. That would mean 100% of body motion released into the disc... but it would also mean a lot of physics happening on the body, causing injury. So there is a follow through to wind down the body safely. The compromise between energy transfer and injury is to hesitate at the hit/release. That hesitation of slowing shoulder, slowing elbow, allows the momentum to go into the disc when the forearm extends. The mass of your body stops (slows safely), while the mass of the disc is propelled.
So if the target is at 12:00, do the hips (and then the shoulders) start decelerating when they are facing the 9:00 direction? (RHBH)
it is something that you shouldnt need to worry about
I don't agree. Plus, that would be impossible to do anyway.
I can accept that it won't be a conscious action, but I think that knowing where the switch from acceleration to deceleration is for the hips and shoulders might help me to get a better feel for what I SHOULD be focusing on doing. I'm having a rough time of figuring out how to properly power the shot with my hips, and how that relates to the brace and the heel pivot.
In my reading in other places on the forums, I had gotten the impression that the shoulders don't actually decelerate before release. I'd gotten the impression that after the shoulders rotate far enough around, the front shoulder actually starts moving away from the target as a result, and that that is what whips the arm. Is this true, or is it instead true that there is a hesitation or deceleration when the shoulders face the hit point?
Same question for the hips, I suppose.
On a related note, is the heel pivot on the front foot purely follow-through, or does that pivot actually power the shot in some way?
seedlings
* Ace Member *
Aaaah, I should have said 'theoretically' :doh:
Imagine Newton's Cradle balls in perpetual motion. If the incoming ball transfers 100% of it's energy, the opposite ball flies away. If it does not transfer 100% energy, there is wobble and sway in the entire mechanism. Yes, this does not translate letter-for-letter to disc golf. Please ignore if my comments are bothersome.
Aye. Im trying to picture a Javelin thrower who throws but every motion stops at release. That would look funny.
Something I've thought about though is that it doesnt seem to matter with distance with guys who have a lot of forward follow through motion like James Conrad vs. Drew Gibson who has very little.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 21,995
Linear speed to target slows or stops and goes/clears to the right or rotational.
Linear moments/sequences lead rotational moments/sequences.
Shift-Rotate off rear leg, Shift-Rotate on front leg.
Most players just want to shoot the shoulder into rotation right away which leads to hugging yourself/rounding. Swing targetward.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4lTAX3sfd4#t=9m
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 21,995
This might give a better visual of the linear to rotational shoulder swing. The shoulder swinging targetward pulls the disc into center and then starts rotating away when the door/disc is center chest and start pushing the door/disc out away from center.
This video deserves it's own thread. So good.
Yes, but does the rotational speed diminish in images 5 and 6 (at the start of this thread) or does the rotational speed remain constant and you say that the shoulder's linear velocity to the target "slows forward" because, as the shoulders rotate, the front shoulder is heading in a direction other than targetward (same speed, different direction)?
Thanks
seedlings
* Ace Member *
Ezra can mash.
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,680
Nice graphic of how the femurs work!
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2014
- Messages
- 1,680
That is the correct feel, the rear femur rotates forward underneath the pelvis and shin rotates facing down/heel up foot eversion from the instep driving everything from the ground up and blocking the lower spine upright on the braced front femur creating internal torque or squeeze between the thighs to the torso/arm/disc. It's like riding a twirling bucking bull and holding upright on to the bull by squeezing the trailing leg into the bull or your front side.
I had completely overlooked how far the rear foot eversion is until I saw these videos posted just recently although this it's been pointed out tons of times. That last bit of foot eversion really causes internal hip rotation and pelvic turn. I've been finishing or rear leg leaving the ground from the ball of the foot instead of the toes and leaving a lot of power on the table.
And from the Swivel Chair Drill:
Attachments
Thanks for sharing that baseball video. I was out playing a practice round, and I wasn't doing too well.
Then I had the idea to try swinging my arm like a baseball bat. That didn't work, but then I imagined just my upper arm as the bat.
There was a noticable difference in the way everything felt, and the disc was clearly going way faster. I spent 10 minutes searching for it in the woods past the basket.
Everything clicked for me the other day. Everything Sidewinder22 is trying to teach makes perfect sense now. I was trying to think of a better way to teach the feeling, but came to the realization that his drills are designed to try to give you the feel. That's the best you can do.
That graphic of the hips in motion with just the skeleton might help some people get there. It's truly excellent.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...suborigin=entry_point&player_format=permalink
