The number of disc golf player has declined, by a large number.....

[itsRudy]

Does anyone know (or care to guess) what percent of players are PDGA members?
In my area I would guess it's around 10-20%.

No clue, still haven't joined after seven years.

This last winter, courses were much emptier than the previous two winters, and more comparable to my first five years. And it was a very mild no snow winter too.

My spider sense is that the good courses are still well visited, but very few go to the lesser courses. Maybe just a lot less course baggers in this generation and casual level.

 

[BillFleming]

I did not renew my PDGA membership this year and I know a few others that didn't either. Reasons differ....

I've heard a few say it's because of the Anti-Trans stand (a couple specifically named Natalie Ryan being banned).
But the majority, they just feel they aren't getting the value.

I didn't renew because the only thing being a member did for me was save me $10 per sanctioned tournament and this year I decided to not play in any tournaments as I work towards improving.

I used to play ball golf and was a full time member of the USGA. I think the USGA takes care of its members WAY better than the PDGA.

As a member of the PDGA, the first year I got a disc, marker, sticker, generic bag tag, rule book, and $10 off sanctioned tournaments.
For renewals, I got a generic bag tag and $10 off sanctioned tournaments.
(I also got the right to buy the PDGA membership disc at a discount - but again, that would cost extra money).
I'm not sure new members get a rule book since it is available online now. I do know we don't get a rule book after major changes are made.

For the USGA, I got a personalized bag tag - had my name and how long I've been a member. I got a hat with the logo from where that year's U.S. Open was held. I got USGA calendar. I got a ball marker/divot repair tool. EVERY YEAR. When the rules had a major change, I got a new rule book....no charge.

PDGA charges an Am $50.
USGA charges a minimum of $25 and you get the things I listed. For higher membership fees, you get additional swag.

Also, I really don't know how my PDGA membership fees are being spent. With the USGA, they sent me information on it and spent the money on things like research (different grasses, fertilizers, equipment, creating standards). The USGA was open with how the money is spent....the PDGA, not so. I also got a nice letter each year asking me if I would renew.

So, why join/renew with the PDGA if you aren't going to play in tournaments....there's just no value in it.

 

[coupe]

That coincides with supply of new discs getting back to normal so not necessarily an indicator of demand.

Pre-pandemic, the PIAS about a mile from where I work had only one skillshot basket of used discs, and even then it was rarely more than half full. These days they have two roughly 48"x36"x18" crates in addition to the skillshot, and they're all overflowing, as well as full bins of new discs and misstamps/factory seconds.

They've been running a 25% off the lowest sticker price sale on '22 Trilogy, Discraft, Prodigy, and MVP signature series/tour discs since mid-May, and they're having trouble moving them. (Albert Tamm Opto-X Ballista Pros for $17 and Vinny Halo Destroyers for $18, anyone? Anyone? Guess not.)

But, hey, I'm sure the owner will be glad to hear that not being able to move discs isn't an indicator of demand.

 

[txmxer]

Pre-pandemic, the PIAS about a mile from where I work had only one skillshot basket of used discs, and even then it was rarely more than half full. These days they have two roughly 48"x36"x18" crates in addition to the skillshot, and they're all overflowing, as well as full bins of new discs and misstamps/factory seconds.

They've been running a 25% off the lowest sticker price sale on '22 Trilogy, Discraft, Prodigy, and MVP signature series/tour discs since mid-May, and they're having trouble moving them. (Albert Tamm Opto-X Ballista Pros for $17 and Vinny Halo Destroyers for $18, anyone? Anyone? Guess not.)

But, hey, I'm sure the owner will be glad to hear that not being able to move discs isn't an indicator of demand.

Easy, I said not necessarily. I don't know what overall market sentiment is and local experience may not be the same everywhere.

We've discussed that the supply side seems to be saturated now and how many of the smaller startups with a handful of molds will be around in a few years.

With COVID came an inrush of players and a disc shortage. It makes sense to me that supply has caught with demand leveling and new sellers have entered the market, individuals would feel demand is down.

Or maybe it is down. But I still see plenty of people out on the courses.

 

[ejvogie]

Pre-pandemic, the PIAS about a mile from where I work had only one skillshot basket of used discs, and even then it was rarely more than half full. These days they have two roughly 48"x36"x18" crates in addition to the skillshot, and they're all overflowing, as well as full bins of new discs and misstamps/factory seconds.

They've been running a 25% off the lowest sticker price sale on '22 Trilogy, Discraft, Prodigy, and MVP signature series/tour discs since mid-May, and they're having trouble moving them. (Albert Tamm Opto-X Ballista Pros for $17 and Vinny Halo Destroyers for $18, anyone? Anyone? Guess not.)

But, hey, I'm sure the owner will be glad to hear that not being able to move discs isn't an indicator of demand.

Well, hey, if they have any Barsby Nexus Rhynos...

 

[DanJon]

Not true. Too many seniors are living hand to mouth, mostly because of inflation fueled by corporate greed.

In context, my response was about players over 40.

So yes, I understand your point, but was really talking about the middle class 40-60 year-olds looking for a new hobby.

 

[Plastic Thunder]

Nope, not connected with the sport at all other then playing. I sell a few discs on the side. Sales suggested a contraction in the sport. Sales numbers fell off a cliff in November of 2022. I started looking at data then and figured 2 things caused the issue. 1st, loss of causal players, 2nd the rest of us have more discs than we need. I have a 3 buddies that own real stores and they confirmed the same sales percentages. I ran across this data while looking for and old spreadsheet the PDGA used to have posted.

I used uDisc for a while and then got tired of entering data while played. So you are on point with casual rounds.

This was an interesting exercise. I will look again 2024 and see what happens to the numbers.

Are you the uDisc Course Ambassador for your local? If so you can get a bunch of interesting data from there about course usage. It might be more meaningful than PDGA stats. (but not by a huge margin, because not every one scores casual rounds)

 

[Three Putt]

10% tops would be my estimate.

My perception of disc golf in the 90's was that in our area we had an abnormally high % of PDGA membership vs other sports. The sport was so small and niche and driven by clubs who promoted PDGA membership that the % of club and/or PDGA membership was quite high. I'd have thought 10% was possible back then. My perception by 2010 was that had normalized quite a bit; courses had accumulated to the point where I encounted a lot more non-club players. I'd guess way under 5% at this point, probably 2-3%.

That's actually not bad, for most sports you are talking less than .5% somewhere. As the sport grew, that % was going to fall.

 

[txmxer]

Nope, not connected with the sport at all other then playing. I sell a few discs on the side. Sales suggested a contraction in the sport. Sales numbers fell off a cliff in November of 2022. I started looking at data then and figured 2 things caused the issue. 1st, loss of causal players, 2nd the rest of us have more discs than we need. I have a 3 buddies that own real stores and they confirmed the same sales percentages. I ran across this data while looking for and old spreadsheet the PDGA used to have posted.

I used uDisc for a while and then got tired of entering data while played. So you are on point with casual rounds.

This was an interesting exercise. I will look again 2024 and see what happens to the numbers.

Where do you get the data from?

 

[lee76007]

From Virginia Beach to Williamsburg the number of Disc Golf players is not declining. I would say still increasing.

Courses:

The two local courses I frequent the most, I used to be able to tee up 7-730am the first one out and maybe a few players ahead of me starting my 2nd round. I now have to tee up 630-45am-ish to stay ahead of the increase play. I can still play the Waller Mill course two rounds and still be the only one on the course, but that's because it's a heavily wooded ravine course, and a physical beatdown. Norfolk is adding a third 9-holer, and Virginia Beach last year added its first 9-holer, and an 18-holer is being added to its newest park during phase II additions. I stay away from Bayville starting late morning, it gets packed.

PIAS:

All three stores have added rack space. Virginia Beach store Innova's move quickly, as with MVP/Axiom and Westside at a good pace. Newport News and Chesapeake store added more MVP/Axiom space those discs move at a quicker pace than Innova. Used bends move quickly at Virginia Beach, decent pace at the other two stores. All other brands seem to move slower especially Discraft, and I've seen 25% off on those discs.

Tournaments:

I've seen larger fields at each tournament year to year. For the second year in a row a popular radio DJ has hosted a tournament at Munden Point. The tournament has more of a fun element to it, and this year already played, there was demand with the already established morning round, for a second afternoon round to meet the demand for additional players, so the DJ did it. There have also been a few pop-up tournaments at a few parks to see if establishing a permanent course is a possibility.

New Players:

Every once in a while, I pair up with a newbie and they have never heard of DGCR, UDisc maybe a few of them, McBeth, Heimburg, Tattar, etc, and courses close by. Don't understand the flight numbers, have explained it to a few, including in the Disc Store. A few months ago one dude said he was 15 rounds into playing and was using a hop, skip, and a jump on his runup, all over the place. I was feeling pretty good that day parking a few longer Par 3's, and he asked for tips. I showed him how to throw a Standstill, and he threw much better. I see more newer players in the city courses, but more veteran players in the rural courses, and more difficult courses.

In my area, Disc Golf growth is doing just fine. The growth seems to be for casual play, and they the newer player has also never heard of the PDGA, let alone pay for a membership.

 

[Smigles]

We have new players in training every week. The club is growing faster than ever. Our tournaments fill up faster than ever.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

We have new players in training every week. The club is growing faster than ever. Our tournaments fill up faster than ever.

This^

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

But the majority, they just feel they aren't getting the value.

I didn't renew because the only thing being a member did for me was save me $10 per sanctioned tournament and this year I decided to not play in any tournaments as I work towards improving.


So, why join/renew with the PDGA if you aren't going to play in tournaments....there's just no value in it.

The definition of "value" varies for some players............ Me personally, I've not played 4+ events in a year since 2018. I have to join to run tournaments. I feel that's vital to the quality of events being run AND I feel they could go a bit further in that aspect. I feel the addition of having members take the officials test was a great idea but I feel it should be more frequent for TDs or maybe even a different TD test to assure all TDs are aware of all the latest rule changes.

Just browsing over some PDGA numbers using their Advanced Event Search at the halfway point of 2023......
I got 4422 A, B C tier events sanctioned and actually played. Scrolling thru those 177 pages i see 1-2 cancelled events per page. Subtract 177 and I'm thinking there were ~4245 tournaments run.
Did the same search for PDGA leagues and I got another 855 events. a quick scroll thru 35 pages and i see a cancelled league approximately every other page. That's over 5000 events that something could go wrong if the TD hasn't kept up with all the rules changes.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Just trying to make players aware of the TD side of PDGA membership because i'm continually surprised at the questions i hear from new players that could be answered if they read(and understood) the rule book. The paper rule book was in my bathroom for reading material until they stopped giving them away for renewals.

Having the rules link RIGHT IN THE Digital app was the smartest move by the PDGA since the Officials Test.

 

[Nick Pacific]

We have new players in training every week. The club is growing faster than ever. Our tournaments fill up faster than ever.

Same here. My local course is busier now than ever. I've been going there since it opened in 2009 and was one of the very first people who ever played it, and year after year, there has been more players. From a very rudimentary perspective I would say it seems as if there are 10% more people year after year, since 2009, and that has never stopped or slowed.

 

[biscoe]

The definition of "value" varies for some players............ Me personally, I've not played 4+ events in a year since 2018. I have to join to run tournaments. I feel that's vital to the quality of events being run AND I feel they could go a bit further in that aspect. I feel the addition of having members take the officials test was a great idea but I feel it should be more frequent for TDs or maybe even a different TD test to assure all TDs are aware of all the latest rule changes.

I believe this may be in the works.

 

[txmxer]

Just trying to make players aware of the TD side of PDGA membership because i'm continually surprised at the questions i hear from new players that could be answered if they read(and understood) the rule book. The paper rule book was in my bathroom for reading material until they stopped giving them away for renewals.

Having the rules link RIGHT IN THE Digital app was the smartest move by the PDGA since the Officials Test.

Captain judgement.

I'm big in players knowing the rules—particularly at the pro level, but this seems over the top. I'm kind of baffled by what you are intending with this post.

I re-read your post. You are frustrated by new players asking questions of the TD that are answered in the rules.

Thats a "humanity sucks" issue. You will either develop a tolerance for it or hate life. There will always be people that ask for an answer that is easily given. (Let me google that for you) is proof of that.

If you want to TD events successfully, I suggest you accept those questions will occur and not allow them to matter or alter your focus from what matters in creating a successful event.

Ie patience. Those issues are ONLY momentary unless you give them permanence.

 

[txmxer]

Nope, not connected with the sport at all other then playing. I sell a few discs on the side. Sales suggested a contraction in the sport. Sales numbers fell off a cliff in November of 2022. I started looking at data then and figured 2 things caused the issue. 1st, loss of causal players, 2nd the rest of us have more discs than we need. I have a 3 buddies that own real stores and they confirmed the same sales percentages. I ran across this data while looking for and old spreadsheet the PDGA used to have posted.

I used uDisc for a while and then got tired of entering data while played. So you are on point with casual rounds.

This was an interesting exercise. I will look again 2024 and see what happens to the numbers.

In case it was overlooked, I asked where you get the specific data you referenced from?

 

[aren]

Same here. My local course is busier now than ever. I've been going there since it opened in 2009 and was one of the very first people who ever played it, and year after year, there has been more players. From a very rudimentary perspective I would say it seems as if there are 10% more people year after year, since 2009, and that has never stopped or slowed.

Confirm here, too. Club membership this year is 136% of what it was in 2022, our highest year ever. Course play, according to UDisc, is on pace to be 125% of last year's total.

To comments that there's a ton of plastic on the shelves, I'm curious at the amount of plastic being produced now compared to, say, 2019.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

Captain judgement.

I'm big in players knowing the rules—particularly at the pro level, but this seems over the top. I'm kind of baffled by what you are intending with this post.

I re-read your post. You are frustrated by new players asking questions of the TD that are answered in the rules.

That's a "humanity sucks" issue. You will either develop a tolerance for it or hate life. There will always be people that ask for an answer that is easily given. (Let me google that for you) is proof of that.

If you want to TD events successfully, I suggest you accept those questions will occur and not allow them to matter or alter your focus from what matters in creating a successful event.

Ie patience. Those issues are ONLY momentary unless you give them permanence.

Thanks for the judgement but, I believe you've read TOO far into my post and incorrectly assumed i was frustrated with questions. I actually typed "continually surprised" instead of frustrated. IMO there's a difference.

I've been a TD for 14 years. My 65th PDGA event is in August. I always ask around before, during and after events to see if players notice anything I've missed or they have ideas to improve events. I'm not a "develop a tolerance" guy. I'm more of a "seek out and fix it" guy.
I'm at the point where my events sellout in minutes and sometimes seconds, not hours/days/weeks. So i must be doing something right.

The questions i was referring to are ones that the rules book had answered in the past, which tells me that new players are not "digesting" the rules enough, are too lazy to look it up OR not read thru it in its entirety. I'll admit that some rules are written confusing but that discussion is for another thread.

BTW, the post you quoted(54) was a continuation of the one above it(53). Got timed out during an edit.