The Secret Technique... almost complete

[JR]

Let us suppose that for the sake of illustration there is a player with infinite amount of muscle power so that he can stop the arm in place infinitely quickly. Newton says that an object in motion won't stop without interference. Since there is kinetic energy in the throw that energy will not dissipate just because the arm stops -the energy has to go somewhere. If the player does not grip so hard that the fingers will not bend the disc shall pivot. Then you have the full energy moving only the weight of the fingers and the disc which is way less than the arm or the body. The power to weight ratio goes up while the energy does not go down. It should go up. If the energy stayed constant and the weight goes down what happens?

 

[tampora]

Let us suppose that for the sake of illustration there is a player with infinite amount of muscle power so that he can stop the arm in place infinitely quickly. Newton says that an object in motion won't stop without interference. Since there is kinetic energy in the throw that energy will not dissipate just because the arm stops -the energy has to go somewhere. If the player does not grip so hard that the fingers will not bend the disc shall pivot. Then you have the full energy moving only the weight of the fingers and the disc which is way less than the arm or the body. The power to weight ratio goes up while the energy does not go down. It should go up. If the energy stayed constant and the weight goes down what happens?

I see your using the energy transfer from the arm/wrist to the disc, then using the fact the disc has less mass to equate it to moving faster.

In the example, the Heracles could stop his arm in two different ways. He could 'push off against the disc' to stop his arm. Or, he could use his legs and 'push off against the Earth' to stop his arm. The first method would result in the disc traveling faster than his arm/wrist/fingers due to conservation of energy. But, the second method wouldn't since the energy of the arm being transferred to the Earth and not the disc.

Now, isn't the throwing motion much closer to being a pulling motion, instead of a pushing motion? By pulling, I don't see how 'pushing off against the disc' can occur.

Sorry for keeping this nitpicking alive.

 

[JR]

The arm movement starts out as a pull up to the right pec and continues as a push from then on or a backhand punch. There are two ways of countering the counter force of the arm whip from the right pec out and one is to brace the bag leg or push it forward and the other way is the Feldy kick. One can retard the arm movement from the shoulder socket, elbow and wrist by muscle power. So far it seems that i throw farther when not limiting the shoulder whip and since my elbow does not extend straight due to anatomy i don't need to worry about it. The active stopping attempt of the wrist is doomed to fail but it is the attempt and retarding of the wrist flicking speed that launches the disc pivot from the palm out to rip out from between the index finger and the thumb after about 180-270 (rare) degrees of disc rotation from the right pec position to the rip. You do not need to stop the arm against the disc you stop by arm muscles.

 

[jubuttib]

Unless you're referring to the hand/wrist as NOT being a part of the arm, how is it possible to propel a disc faster than the arm that accelerates it?

Pivot, for one thing.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Unless you're referring to the hand/wrist as NOT being a part of the arm, how is it possible to propel a disc faster than the arm that accelerates it?

Pivot, for one thing.

Yes. It is called "coupling".

 

[horsethief]

The secret technique works... for those who don't have deeply ingrained shoulder rotation issues. the goal of this technique was to correct shoulder rotation issues since you're focusing mainly on what the arm is doing and working in "small motions" that don't require much, if any, body rotation.

I currently have 5 students with shoulder rotation issues... and we could do the drills i've come up with for hours upon hours and not get any closer to correcting those.

Have you ever had students throw into a net instead of in a field? It seems like subconciously when you put a field in front of someone, they just automatically swing for the fences with every ounce of energy they have.

Just a thought, maybe you've tried it?

 

[Stringbean]

JR,

i'm not really going to respond to all of this as I'm tired and I'd rather just start writing up the finished product.

this is a different technique that is about maximizing angles.

all power throws have one thing in common: they bring the outer edge of the disc around.

there are different techniques that do this in differing ways. e.g. swedish technique can do this with hardly any elbow or wrist bend with an emphasis on driving the shoulders hard. the technique i am working on maximizes the impact of the elbow and wrist and minimizes the impact of shoulder rotation. there doesn't need to be any backwards pull since it can make the wrist unload with only forward motions.

the trick to this is to accelerate the outer edge of the disc on an INCREASING radius. e.g. a golden spiral. the behavior of the arm abruptly lengthens the radius of the arc at the last second and causes a tremendous amount of angular velocity on the edge coming around.
on these throws my wrist is actually completing a 120-140 degree extension (2" of motion is about 45 degrees), which leads to an exceptionally hard and heavy disc pivot.

From watching slow motion videos, I have noticed that all of the big distance pros keep their right shoulder tucked in very late into the throw. While doing field work, I get at least 25 more feet on my drives when I focus on keeping the right shoulder tucked as late as possible.

It makes sense according to what Blake mentions above regarding the golden spiral and lengthening the radius of the arc. By keeping the right shoulder tucked until the elbow is forward, the extension of the shoulder thereafter will further lengthen the radius of the arc.