STL Flyer
Bogey Member
Look up Dave Dunipaces Snake Strike putting style video. I switched and practiced this style for a month and saw like 5 strokes drop off my scores at my home course Sioux Passage
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Top card pure push putters
- Thread starter Alexplz
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BlueMonk
Par Member
Maybe it's because the sport is still so young, but I feel like there's a lot of contradictory information out there about disc golf technique.
The only thing almost everyone agrees on is how to throw backhand drives; there's a pretty strong consensus about what makes for good backhand form.
As for forehand technique, it seems like advice is all over the map. I've heard some players say, "make sure you follow through," and I've heard others say, "there's no follow-through on a forehand." I've heard some say, "keep your elbow in," and others say, "the worst advice is keeping your elbow in." I've heard, "people say it looks effortless, but I'm giving it all I've got." I've also heard, "it should feel effortless if you're doing it right." :-/
To be fair, I think some of the disagreement comes down to semantics and definitions, like keeping the elbow in, but only at a certain point in the release. But the end result is you hear different things from different players that seem to directly contradict each other.
Putting technique is the most confusing of all to me. There seem to be as many styles as there are fingerprints, and most pros don't even try to suggest there is just one right way, they say just pick one that works for you and stick with it.
This game is hard!
The only thing almost everyone agrees on is how to throw backhand drives; there's a pretty strong consensus about what makes for good backhand form.
As for forehand technique, it seems like advice is all over the map. I've heard some players say, "make sure you follow through," and I've heard others say, "there's no follow-through on a forehand." I've heard some say, "keep your elbow in," and others say, "the worst advice is keeping your elbow in." I've heard, "people say it looks effortless, but I'm giving it all I've got." I've also heard, "it should feel effortless if you're doing it right." :-/
To be fair, I think some of the disagreement comes down to semantics and definitions, like keeping the elbow in, but only at a certain point in the release. But the end result is you hear different things from different players that seem to directly contradict each other.
Putting technique is the most confusing of all to me. There seem to be as many styles as there are fingerprints, and most pros don't even try to suggest there is just one right way, they say just pick one that works for you and stick with it.
This game is hard!
Alexplz
Double Eagle Member
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I don't know enough about sports physics to dispute this, but it's the internet so I'll give it a go.
The idea that there are more things to mess up with spin putting may be the case. However I wonder whether or not this actually results in higher scores vs push putting. Being aware that push putting is more mechanically sound did not help putts go in for me. Did I have the best push putt form possible? No. But I don't have a lot of time to practice putting either.
Spin putting is more intuitive, allowing one to rely on a more familiar motion of tossing a Frisbee. There's nothing intuitive about holding most of the joints in your upper body rigid, which is a drawback to push putting.
Also don't forgot that putting doesn't take place in a vacuum. There may be more points of failure that I'm introducing in my elbow and wrist, but the disc is leaving my hand with more spin and potentially with the nose down against the wind, which is going to reduce the variability there.
Finally, the idea that there are "more points of failure" may come from theory, but I still haven't seen any scientific studies on putting.
I don't know, when I run I always make sure to do so with straight legs to avoid knee bend related failure. Olympics here I come!
Alexplz
Double Eagle Member
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Right, just like Feldberg and Ricky get all their putting spin from their fingers opening, you get all your locomotion from your toes opening!
Thanks for this post. I hadn't realized until I read this that I've been getting lazy this summer with my finger-pop. I've been putting great, with a lot of wrist action - but there's been a limit to my comfortable range that has been driving me nuts. Found it this morning by bringing that pop with the back fingers into my putt again.
The push putt removes the elbow completely from the equation. It's not like this is some cutting edge scientific theory. There are less things moving/bending.
Alexplz
Double Eagle Member
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I just don't 100% buy that more made putts follows from less things moving/bending. If it all else was held equal going from a spin putt to a push putt that would be one thing. But you're also losing spin and introducing an entirely different style of stroke, which I will argue is less intuitive and requires more of an investment of consistent practice to get over the initial learning curve.
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Meillo
Eagle Member
None of this ``intuition'' is given by birth, it all depends on your previous sports experiences and such. What holds true for you can be on the contrary for others. If you come from Volleyball, for example, you'll find holding the upper body rigid and pushing in one direction to be pretty ``intuitive'' i.e. familiar.
Alexplz
Double Eagle Member
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Fair enough. In that case, I guess all you disc golfers out on the course with more volleyball experience than frisbee thing experience have a leg up when it comes to push putting. /S
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SD86
Banned
You beat me to mentioning this. The "snake strike" is just a form of what McBeth does... his movements are slow until he goes into the throw itself, and then that putter makes haste out of his paw and into the basket.
Another thing I liked was the comment on Ricky's fingers imparting spin. I find that to be very important to the accuracy of my putts. If I don't, I feel like I threw a knuckleball (knuckledisc?).
Nikko is probably the best push putter, but even he has moved away from that style a bit of late.
One other problem not mentioned, is that on long range push putts, you really need to add a lot of loft! Many baskets are well guarded and dont allow a high lofting putt.
If you want to learn to spin putt, get an ultimate lid and use just your wrist to impart spin on it as you putt. Really helped me learn that feeling. A Beetle is also nice, and I use this as my warmup / catch disc. A few throws with those and your normal putter will feel like its rocketing out of your hand!
One other problem not mentioned, is that on long range push putts, you really need to add a lot of loft! Many baskets are well guarded and dont allow a high lofting putt.
If you want to learn to spin putt, get an ultimate lid and use just your wrist to impart spin on it as you putt. Really helped me learn that feeling. A Beetle is also nice, and I use this as my warmup / catch disc. A few throws with those and your normal putter will feel like its rocketing out of your hand!
STL Flyer
Bogey Member
Just practice what it is comfortable and works for you. I think people put way too much importance on the style of the putt or what they want their put to style to look like and forget its all about how you can best get the disc to the chains.
UCF_Knight
Birdie Member
You keep talking about scientific studies when discounting other posters' thoughts then following that up by making statements as if they are fact, when they are in reality about how push putting was uncomfortable and counter intuitive for you.
The push putt is an adaptation of an underhand throw which is a pretty common movement, way more common across sports as a whole and everyday life than the motion of a spin putt. There are stories about Shaq being more accurate with free throws using an underhand shot that a traditional shot but refusing to use it. The basketball shot is very similar underhand: less moving parts, traditional basketball shot: much higher skill movement.
It's obvious from how you describe push putting you don't understand how it works. If you think about trying to "keep your joints rigid" push putting is going to be hard. I would define push putting as minimizing elbow and wrist movement, generating spin with the fingers and using the lower body to generate velocity. Where as spin putting is utilizing the elbow and wrist to generate spin and power. True push putting, Nikko/Hokom(after a weird wind up), and true spin, Melton/Doss, putting are both far less common than a blend of the two known as spush, McBeth, Wysocki, Koling, etc.
This video has a really great range of putting styles and shows the advantages and disadvantages of both really well.
Uli-Pure Spin
Simon-Nearly pure spin
McBeth-True spush. lofted release very minimal breaking of elbow and wrist
Bell-Nearly pure push, pulls out a spin putt here and there.
Last 2 putting world titles went to Matt Bell and Anthony Barela neither are spin putters.
Not really on Cam, and definitely not for Cale.
UCF_Knight
Birdie Member
I remember seeing some instructional video where Cam talks about putting with a "shoulder pop", in that video he was 100% push putt, but that must have been a phase because I've seen videos from before and after that time where his putt is way different.
F. Howl
* Ace Member *
I never see this mentioned, but the push putt adds something to the equation: release point along the arc. Most spin putters have a small amount of vertical travel in their stroke: Rico, Anthon, whoever that Dunipace guy is in the video posted above, and MJ who starts the disc just below the sternum, and releases about chin height. 10 inches of travel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0f-ZruJKec&feature=youtu.be&t=3m41s
Versus the 30+ inches of travel seen here, on Ricky's last putt before winning World's...well, 2nd to last:
https://youtu.be/ynkIlAZ4SQE?t=29m8s
That's the hardest challenge for me push putting. Next would be spin.
A disc doesn't fly without a certain amount of it. A spin putter divides the effort between the elbow and wrist, where as a push putter generates it solely at the wrist or in the extreme, the base knuckle of the hand (finger pop). The closer the force to the fulcrum, the weaker the lever. A lot of required force is left to a smaller lever, and a smaller error has a bigger consequence.
