Ultimate discs vs. Golf discs...

[prettyboyfloyd]

After playing my first round at Milo McGiver (great course), I realized that I should learn FH.

After reading a comment from Glong on the "Forehand Primer" thread:

"do the hammer pound drills from DGR and throw the crap out of your putters/mids for a month or so. if you are a manly man, get an ultimate disc and work with that"

It got me to thinking: does learning with ultimate discs (fattys, lids, etc.) help with technique anymore than the disc down formats (putters and mids)?

After playing toss & ultimate for years, I changed over to DG almost two years ago. Then I went to play catch with a friend of mine on beach and COULD NOT throw an ultimate disc for peanuts. I realized it was way understable and improved, but I still really suck at it.

Does this mean my backhand form sucks?

 

[bradharris]

Does this mean my backhand form sucks?

Yes.

The reason to practice with low speed, understable discs (which is where an ultimate disc would fall) is that they are much more sensitive to form flaws.

 

[prettyboyfloyd]

OK, then why is it that when I started playing, I couldn't rip mids and putters like I could with the ultimate discs? Like many newbies, I brought a fatty to the course and played with that first.

I understand now that there should be a disconnect between the two types of discs and I am going to start practicing with ultimate disc...

 

[EeBeKay]

I am going to start practicing with ultimate disc...

thats pretty dumb.... :thmbdown:

 

[Clempson13]

technique is pretty different for them. my brother plays a ton of ultimate and it takes him a full round to get back to being able to throw golf discs.

 

[The Bird Man]

yeah, don't throw lids, especially to learn forehand. Send me a pm, I live in Albany and started playing my first two years FH only. I would be happy to show you a thing or two.

 

[prettyboyfloyd]

Ok, thanks. I was feeling foolish for a bit. I will now resume practicing with putters and mids. I'll send you a pm, Bird Man.

 

[lsf_21]

I was an ultimate player and converted to a disc golf player.

I looked for discs that felt similar to a ultimate disc or were something that could be considered similar.

I played a lot of rounds with a Comet and a Birdie. The comet is a larger diameter that you can still throw pretty well distance wise and the Birdie is as close to a small ultimate disc as you will find.

I still suck at disc golf but I keep a birdie in my bad just for the touch shots that I know I can make with it.

 

[Tyler_McGinnis]

I play both(played top 4 college regionals level for 2 years so somewhat competitive) and to be honest haven't felt a positive or negative difference from it. If anything disc golf has helped me to understand disc flight, but in my opinion they are different throws because an ultimate throw needs to happen much further from your body (if your prerogative is to not be point blocked every time). I have not had much trouble flipping between the two types of throws though. All that being said I think practicing a golf throw with an ultra star or other lid type disc can be helpful in getting clean throws, Zephyr helped me a lot.

 

[bradharris]

Keep in mind there are other strategy differences. For instance, for golf throws, you have to give a lot of thought to how the disc will land. While in ultimate, the whole point is for it to never land.

Also, although the flight of an ultimate disc is similar to an understable golf disc, the feel in the hand is very different. My grip for ultimate (fh or bh) is very different than my grip for disc golf.

 

[lapants]

technique is pretty different for them. my brother plays a ton of ultimate and it takes him a full round to get back to being able to throw golf discs.

Thats funny because I was the opposite. my poor DG form would not allow me to play ultimate well, but now I've got it down and can slow down my arm for ultimate.

Actually, after playing ultimate again this spring I think my arm speed slowed down, but I have started using slower discs and have gained back the distance. So I guess I did do this and it worked

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

Keep in mind there are other strategy differences. For instance, for golf throws, you have to give a lot of thought to how the disc will land. While in ultimate, the whole point is for it to never land.

Also, although the flight of an ultimate disc is similar to an understable golf disc, the feel in the hand is very different. My grip for ultimate (fh or bh) is very different than my grip for disc golf.

False, ultimate discs, more specifically the USAU(UPA) and PDGA approved Discraft Ultrastar, are not understable unless they get taco'd and beat in like any other disc, they are in fact the most stable(straight) disc you will throw if you have the correct form. Without the correct form they are going to crash and burn for you. This is coming from a guy who played ultimate before disc golf and has been able to learn from both and be able to use the same form for both kinds of discs.

 

[bradharris]

False, ultimate discs, more specifically the USAU(UPA) and PDGA approved Discraft Ultrastar, are not understable unless they get taco'd and beat in like any other disc, they are in fact the most stable(straight) disc you will throw if you have the correct form. Without the correct form they are going to crash and burn for you. This is coming from a guy who played ultimate before disc golf and has been able to learn from both and be able to use the same form for both kinds of discs.

Interesting. I'll take your word for it as I rarely throw an ultimate disc anymore. I guess I think of it as understable because when I do throw them, I generally have to throw it with quite a bit of hyzer to get it to flip flat and fly straight. When I do this though, it rarely has the left-to-right (rhbh) movement that a true understable disc might have.

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

Interesting. I'll take your word for it as I rarely throw an ultimate disc anymore. I guess I think of it as understable because when I do throw them, I generally have to throw it with quite a bit of hyzer to get it to flip flat and fly straight. When I do this though, it rarely has the left-to-right (rhbh) movement that a true understable disc might have.

Form, form, form. Ultrastars will fly DEAD straight. Lapants can back me up on this too, we've been playing both ultimate and DG for years together now.

 

[Smigles]

I play both, have been playing ultimate since 1996 and golf for 2 years now.

Ultimate disc is definitly more understable.

What is the biggest difference though is the throw. In Ultimate, you can get that disc down an entire field with a flick of the wrist. In golf, you put in arm speed and fast motion, while you dont realy need that in Ultimate. IF you put in all the body rotation and x step and everythign you learn from disc golf into a ultimate throw, it will definitly turn & burn.

I am not buying what UnitedPuppySlayer is claiming.

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

I do my tradition tee shot (x-step, body rotation, ect) when I pull after points and the only difference is that I can put a lot more air under it without it stalling out. Yes, ultimate discs are a lot easier to throw, power wise, and have a tremendous amount of glide, but they will not flip on you unless they are badly beaten in or have bad form.

I figured that since you have played ultimate since '96, Smigles, that you would agree with me on my points, but after your argument, I'm not buying what you have said either.

 

[GLong]

yeah, don't throw lids, especially to learn forehand.

i bet you can't throw one either

if you have zero forehand ability, throwing lids will help you reduce the armspeed and force you to focus on the wrist motion. they won't teach you how to flick a golf disc, but it's a good foundation. do it for a few hours, then throw some golf discs, and it feels like cheating. they are so much more forgiving.

if you roll your wrist with a lid it will turn and burn everytime. if you can throw a pure hyzer 100-150' with a lid you are doing something right.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't see much difference in technique....

Pulling Ultimate:


Throwing Golf Discs for Distance:

 

[UnitedPuppySlayer]

Those first throws that went out on a hyzer really seemed to flip up to flat/over... boy are those discs understable... :|:|:|

 

[jtbingster]

Puppy is right, you just have to have good form to throw ultimate discs. They'll fly dead straight. Watch Brodie Smith's trick shot vids with some of his flick shots and try to say he had to hyzer flip those ultrastars to get the straight flights.