[Innova] Valkyrie vs. Beast vs. Archon

[slowRoll]

The flight stats on these all look the same and I'm wondering if I should try the Archon or Beast since I've grown to love the Valkyrie these past 3 years.

Name: Speed, Glide, HSS, LSS
Valkyrie 9, 4, -2, 2
Beast 10, 5, -2, 2
Archon 11, 5, -2, 2

Have any of you spent much time with all 3 of these to see if there are any major differences between them? When would you use one over the others, and why?

Thanks.

 

[jasonc]

I currently have 3 valks (newer champ glo, beat star and a mildly seasoned dx) in the bag.

From my POV, the archon is noticeably more overstable when compared to the valkyrie. The archon's rim is wider as well.

I took the archon out of the bag for now. I like it, but it does not fit into my current discin' down adventure road map. My only drivers in the bag right now are the SL/Pro Starfires and Valkyries.

It's been a loooooong time since I threw a beast. Sorry, can't help you out on that part.:\

 

[gstenger]

I haven't thrown the Archon, but I have both the Valkyrie and the Beast. My experience is that both the Valk and the Beast are good for hyzer flipping, but the Beast will more predictably return to the left (thrown RHBH). Once the Valk gets going to the right, it's not coming back whereas the Beast may still come back. I love the Beast for big anyhyzer shots or tunnel shots in the woods. I'm more afraid the Valk will turn and burn when thrown the same way.

For what it's worth, I have Star Beast and a Champion Valkyrie.

-Greg

 

[slowRoll]

I'm at work today, so these thoughts have to be quick. My first disc was a DX Beast but I had no idea what I was doing at that time. The rim width may be a real issue for me. I usually struggle with wide rim drivers overall and get more distance out of my Surge and Valkyrie than I do out of a Nuke or Boss. I own a Pro Beast and a first run Star Archon, but have never spent much time with them to see if they might be better than something I'm already using. Thanks again for the knowledge.

 

[jasonc]

The rim width may be a real issue for me. I usually struggle with wide rim drivers overall and get more distance out of my Surge and Valkyrie than I do out of a Nuke or Boss.

If the rim width is an issue, I would keep the archon in storage for now. I have the same issue, which is why I have been focusing on the valks, starfires and SL's lately.

According to the "experts"......these discs should fly 400'+ when thrown properly. I am finally getting to the point where I can throw these consistently in the 300'--320' range. While I have plenty of room for improvement, I feel that I am on the right path improving my distance lines with these discs.

Now if I only had the time for 3+ hours per day of field work. :|

 

[foo_g]

I haven't thrown the Archon, but I have both the Valkyrie and the Beast. My experience is that both the Valk and the Beast are good for hyzer flipping, but the Beast will more predictably return to the left (thrown RHBH). Once the Valk gets going to the right, it's not coming back whereas the Beast may still come back. I love the Beast for big anyhyzer shots or tunnel shots in the woods. I'm more afraid the Valk will turn and burn when thrown the same way.

For what it's worth, I have Star Beast and a Champion Valkyrie.

-Greg

Is the fade from the Beast due to the fact that it is a higher speed disc?
If it's thrown with more power, wouldn't it be more likely to continue to turn and hold the initial line?

I don't throw a Beast, but I do throw a Star Archon and a Champion Valkyrie quite a bit.
The biggest difference with mine is that the Valkyrie has a lot more dome and will ride and glide for a much longer distance when given some altitude.
For a low ceiling distance shot that I want to turn just a bit, the Archon is my disc, although lately it has been flipping on me and kicking hard to the left on impact if I get just a little too much anhyzer on my release..
It also wants to fade out at the very end for me if I don't turn it over.
Again, it may have to do with the fact that maybe I don't have the arm to really optimize the Archon.
The Valkyrie gives me a little more room for error in most situations, although the distance is a little less predictable with it.
For me, I would also throw a River (speed 7-8?) into this group.
I like it and the Valkyrie for big, high, long anhyzer shots due to the glide of each disc.
If there's a tailwind, I'll usually go with my Gold Line River because it just seems to ride it out forever.
The River also has a more predictable fade than my Valks, so it all just depends on the situation.

 

[JoshEpoo]

The Archon's rim (2.3cm) is actually 1mm wider than a Destroyer, so while it's rated a speed 11, it's considerably more difficult to throw well than a Valk.

If you're looking for a max D type tailwind/turnover/roller driver that's faster than your Valks, then your Pro Beast is certainly worth a shot. Great glide on those things. Since you've already got the Archon, you may as well try it, but I also recommend Pro Wraiths and X Nukes. The X Nuke is the farthest flying disc I've thrown for wide open distance situations, and Pro Wraiths have smaller rims and better grip than the Archon, while being comparable in distance and line shaping potential.

 

[tdschrock1]

Name: Speed, Glide, HSS, LSS
Valkyrie 9, 4, -2, 2
Beast 10, 5, -2, 2
Archon 11, 5, -2, 2


Thanks.

To me, the "-2, 2" flight rating for innova is pretty useless and doesn't have much meaning... (groove, wahoo)

 

[slowRoll]

The X Nuke is the farthest flying disc I've thrown for wide open distance situations, and Pro Wraiths have smaller rims and better grip than the Archon, while being comparable in distance and line shaping potential.

X Nukes being their basline plastic? I have a first run ESP Nuke that is almost useless to me. The rim is just too wide. I can't properly transfer the energy onto the disc like I can with a Valkyrie or a Surge. I mainly just want to see if anyone else loves the Valkyrie as much as me and stepped up in speed to one of these other options. Valks fly in the 320' -350' range for me but I primarily use them in tailwinds or on tighter wooded fairways for shaping lines.

Is there a good reason to step up to a faster disc or is the groups consensus that the Valk is good enough on its own and these other options are just overlap?

 

[chickenonabun]

I think the valk is a good distance driver and can go really far if thrown correctly, probably farther than anything faster if your arm speed/form isn't that great.

 

[MNthrow]

I love my Beast Pro. I use that alot when I have to clear a corner quickly to the left with sme angle on it. Really clean good curve to it.

 

[CrshNburnd]

I haven't thrown the Archon, but I have both the Valkyrie and the Beast. My experience is that both the Valk and the Beast are good for hyzer flipping, but the Beast will more predictably return to the left (thrown RHBH). Once the Valk gets going to the right, it's not coming back whereas the Beast may still come back.

I have all three in my bag, and I would have to agree with this statement. However, in my experience, the Archon is even better than the other two for hyzer flipping. When executed properly, the Archon will flip up, make a long sweeping turn and fade gently with a minimal flare when it hits the ground. I also love it for big, sweeping anhyzers that fade back predictably. The Archon is my go-to disc for maximum, accurate distance.

 

[JoshEpoo]

Valks fly in the 320' -350' range for me but I primarily use them in tailwinds or on tighter wooded fairways for shaping lines

Is there a good reason to step up to a faster disc or is the groups consensus that the Valk is good enough on its own and these other options are just overlap?

For tightly wooded shots, I don't think there is much to gain by going to a Beast or Archon. For max D and/or tailwind situations, the Pro Beast is probably longer than Star/Champ Valks, and the Archon has potential as well, though the grip and speed requirement may be prohibitive for you.

 

[JeCroisQue]

For me the valk and beast fly the same. I've only thrown an Archon a couple of times so I can't really speak to that disc. I find that the Valk will go just as far as any other driver I have thrown. I also think the Valkyrie is easier to throw than the other two, and because of that it's more reliable. A Valk should be enough unless you really find yourself needing a disc with more speed .

I can throw it 375-400 feet consistently with a nice "S" curve. I compliment it with Avengers (I'm testing out PD's with it also) and I am finding that I don't really need anything faster at the moment, at least not until I'm throwing 450+. Once I can throw a bit farther I will look into faster stuff. I have to remind myself sometimes that more speed doesn't mean more distance. It just suggests more distance potential and the ability to handle more power. I have thrown Swords, Kings, and Destroyers (just to name a few faster discs) and I can throw the Valk and Avenger just as far, sometimes farther.

Also, to the person who commented about the inconsistency of innova flight ratings that mentioned the Wahoo and the Groove. Those two discs are extremely inconsistent compared to the beast and valk. I think that the -2, 2 on their numbers are pretty darn accurate.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[burdphil]

I have thrown all three... I currently use only the valk because I find it to be less nose-angle sensitive than the beast and the archon.

 

[Rugball]

The Archon's rim (2.3cm) is actually 1mm wider than a Destroyer, so while it's rated a speed 11, it's considerably more difficult to throw well than a Valk.

If you're looking for a max D type tailwind/turnover/roller driver that's faster than your Valks, then your Pro Beast is certainly worth a shot. Great glide on those things. Since you've already got the Archon, you may as well try it, but I also recommend Pro Wraiths and X Nukes. The X Nuke is the farthest flying disc I've thrown for wide open distance situations, and Pro Wraiths have smaller rims and better grip than the Archon, while being comparable in distance and line shaping potential.

I'm rather surprised by the fact that the archon's rim is wider than the destroyer's. I actually have a harder time gripping my *D vs. the star archon.

I love wraiths, and the archon has a wraith bottom so the grip feels the same to me. I have 2 star archons which I like for controlled drives where I don't have much room to let it fade back. My champ valkyrie is great for tunnel shots and flys pretty straight, with some fade at the end. I don't always have it in the bag though. Seems like I can get by with other disc combos. Can't comment on the beast.

 

[Oklahyzer]

I mainly just want to see if anyone else loves the Valkyrie as much as me and stepped up in speed to one of these other options. Valks fly in the 320' -350' range for me but I primarily use them in tailwinds or on tighter wooded fairways for shaping lines.

Valks are awesome until wear/power/wind make them too flippy. I like star the best, but champ valks are noticeably more stable....still not stellar in heavy wind, though.

Is there a good reason to step up to a faster disc or is the groups consensus that the Valk is good enough on its own and these other options are just overlap?

At your power level it's probably time to look for something either faster or more stable. A Beast would probably fit really well for you. If you like the smaller rim of the Valk, then get a Viking...Vikings are more awesome than Valks once you can get them up to speed, imo. If the Beast or Viking are still flippy for you, then look at an OLF or a lighter Wraith.

 

[chris deitzel]

The archon rim is not very wide. It is Wraith bottom.

My girlfriend throws star valks and star archons. They are very similar but the Archon goes farther. She can throw a Valk about 340 feet and her Archon can hit 380+. I have thrown both and they fly extremely similar. EXcellent discs. I would highly recommend the Archon

 

[JoshEpoo]

The archon rim is not very wide. It is Wraith bottom.

My girlfriend throws star valks and star archons. They are very similar but the Archon goes farther. She can throw a Valk about 340 feet and her Archon can hit 380+. I have thrown both and they fly extremely similar. EXcellent discs. I would highly recommend the Archon

PDGA approved specs on the Archon are for a 2.3cm wing. I know they were originally marked VW (allegedly for Vulcan/Wraith) and they are supposed to have a Wraith bottom but I'm not sure that is supported by facts...

Are you dating Paige Pierce btw? I've never seen a woman even get close to that kind of distance. Pretty impressive.

 

[chickenonabun]

PDGA approved specs on the Archon are for a 2.3cm wing. I know they were originally marked VW (allegedly for Vulcan/Wraith) and they are supposed to have a Wraith bottom but I'm not sure that is supported by facts...

Are you dating Paige Pierce btw? I've never seen a woman even get close to that kind of distance. Pretty impressive.

Paige Pierce is sponsored by discraft