[Vibram] Vibram Disc Golf Thread

[StevenDodge]

Steve Dodge, I picked up a few vibram mini's and love them. I was told the black one I got was part of the proto run/first run is there any truth in that or do you have black ones made all the time? I guess the moral of the question is was the guy full of crap? Thanks

Sort of. We've changed the mold and the original solid colored minis are no longer being made but I would not have called them "protos" or first runs. They were just the first Vibram minis. Now we have a putter mini and a driver mini and they've got patterns on the top of them.

 

[StevenDodge]

Their smaller K9 dog discs are super floppy. It's dimensions are pretty close to a ridge too.

The 8" dog discs are actually made using the proto VP mold.

 

[StevenDodge]

Man I got a proto ascent in today and the thing is really poorly trimmed. It is over-trimmed in a couple of places pretty badly.

Hi Frank,

Can you please email me ([email protected]) a picture of it, I have already gotten a couple of others to the QC folks and would love another one. This kind of stuff cannot get out of the plant.

Steve.

 

[StevenDodge]

I am curious to know what the numbers do mean. I am thinking it has something to do with the number of discs they do in a particular run of rubber. Meaning that when they want to make a particular color or swirl or chunk, they number the discs in that run at they come off to differentiate them. Anywho, Steve could you please prove me wrong?

The numbers are part of a molding QC process test. As far as I can tell, they don't mean anything unless they are in a daily set.

 

[smarkquart]

I've found the ridge a little lacking as a shorter mid. I would say its more a versatile putter for a lot of stuff but I find that with my Roc Comet combo the ridge has been working awesome. The comet and roc cover the #1 and #5 slots (of the 5 directional paths) for the shorter stuff that the ridge can't handle. But then they cover a further range than it does as well. Its just such a good set up, but anyway the longer mids. When paired with the Comet Roc combo don't seem to work as well and you have to carry another mold to cover something that the other disc can't... Whenever I try to structure my bag with something like a Buzzz or Fuse I feel like I need 2 other discs to help out with a few shots..

I agree that the Ridge cannot truly replace a mid. I think it does more than an admirable job when pressed into service, but I too find that I am better served by an actual mid. Personally I use a star San Marino roc, z drone, star Ontario roc, and a z buzzz SS to cover most of my shots. I do not have a specific range that I actually use my ridge for as it is dependant on the situation.

However, this still brings it back to the original discussion. A shorter mid is not going to be that fundamentally different from the ridge if you are looking for a short mid within the same stability range. Maybe this is a good thing because it will be easier too develop a ridge with slightly more distance. I just think that unless virbam is going to release a whole array mids in a short period of time, they are better served to release either a drone or meteor type mid or one that is faster and longer like the Fuse.

 

[cfair]

drone is extra short for a mid. Besides, the Roc and Comet aren't shorter mids because the Buzzz is a longer mid. The folks on DGR would say that the Buzzz is only about 10% longer than the Roc. The reason I call it a driver like mid isn't simply because of the distance but because of the speed you have to get it up to to fly correctly. Where the roc and Comet don't require as much speed as the Buzzz or Meteor.

 

[cfair]

However, this still brings it back to the original discussion. A shorter mid is not going to be that fundamentally different from the ridge if you are looking for a short mid within the same stability range.

I'm not looking for a longer Ridge or a shorter/slower mid. And besides a mid would be drastically different from a Ridge. This discussion is poor because its confusing "normal" distance mids with "Short mids" because the statement "long mids" was made. So short mid (drone), average mid (Buzzz, Roc), long mid (skeeter, stringray, stratus).

All I am saying is I hope they make a wise choice in developing any mids....

 

[smarkquart]

All I am saying is I hope they make a wise choice in developing any mids....

agreed. I have no qualms using a mixed bag but I also like the idea of leaning towards a bag heavy with one company. Less likely of having shots overlapping and the consistency of plastic grip and feel make it easier to grab a disc and not worry about your grip.

 

[cfair]

agreed. I have no qualms using a mixed bag but I also like the idea of leaning towards a bag heavy with one company. Less likely of having shots overlapping and the consistency of plastic grip and feel make it easier to grab a disc and not worry about your grip.

I can understand that. What I'm starting to find is that I like discs that feel similar. Like the combo I'm not shutting up about... the Roc and Comet. The big difference between the two is diameter, dome, and shoulder. Other than that their beads are similar, the concave underside is similar, rim height is similar and they just feel almost the same in my grip.

We'll see when I start using drivers again if the Cyclone or stalker stand out to me because of their bead/wing...

 

[TalbotTrojan]

drone is extra short for a mid. Besides, the Roc and Comet aren't shorter mids because the Buzzz is a longer mid. The folks on DGR would say that the Buzzz is only about 10% longer than the Roc. The reason I call it a driver like mid isn't simply because of the distance but because of the speed you have to get it up to to fly correctly. Where the roc and Comet don't require as much speed as the Buzzz or Meteor.

I am going to disagree with your meteor comment. The Meteor flies like it is supposed to with very little effort. Especially if you are not playing at elevation.

The mid Vibram should make is the one that is better than a Roc and Buzzz but one that fits on that same flight pattern.

 

[smarkquart]

The mid Vibram should make is the one that is better than a Roc and Buzzz but one that fits on that same flight pattern.

Tall order, but not impossible. Go get 'em Vibram.

In the last week I have been playing around with the new Buzzz SS and have really come to like them for their glide and ability to hold lines almost effortlessly. Yet it still has enough low speed stability, especially when I back off the power, to be able to cover numerous shots. It still will not replace my Star SM Roc or Z Drone, for obvious stability reasons, but could easily cover everything else. Right now just because I have room in the bag I am also carrying a Star Ontario Roc, a Star Mako, and a Gold Line Fuse. Fortunately I have the room in the bag to carry them because I have not settled on any one mid to fill that spot. The Buzzz SS is definitely making a strong argument for all the approach shots, but from the limited shots I have taken this week in the snow, I do not see it as a driving mid. I could be wrong, but it seems designed more for control than distance. The O Roc is also great at approaching but unlike the SM Roc I cannot seem to drive with it. Contrarily, I cannot approach with the Mako or Fuse but they are wonderful driving mids.

See the dilemma I am hoping that Vibram can solve?

I can drive with the Ridge but obviously being a putter it cannot get the distance I could get with a decent, all-purpose mid. It seems to me that most well-rounded mids require some kind of dome. Is it something that can be accomplished using the rubber materials Vibram is going to use? The Ascent is a rather hard rubber, thus giving it enough structural integrity to hold some kind of dome, but as Steve pointed out earlier, the soft Ascents were a no go. All the putters I have for the most part are flat, some even developing a minor concave top. I hope it is just a matter of me not knowing how and that Vibram finds that it really is not that difficult to form discs with a dome, but having some kind of dome seems to be a necessity for any kind of versitility mid.

Cannot wait for some kind of proto to come out soon. I have two big tournaments coming up (Winter Carnival and the Mulligan Stew) where they would be a great place to try them out.

 

[smarkquart]

We'll see when I start using drivers again if the Cyclone or stalker stand out to me because of their bead/wing...

I find that I am not as picky with the drivers, at least not how they sit in my hand. If there is one thing I look for in all my drivers is their grip. Thus I often try to go with one type of plastic. Early in the summer last year I was all over Star and Gold Line. Yet as I switched to the Z Nuke as my main maximum distance driver, I gravitated towards Z, Champion, and Opto.

Late in the year when I absolutely feel in love with the Gold Line River, I found that for fairway drivers I was back into Star and Gold Line but maintained the Z, Champion, and Opto for the big boys.

While my experiment into the Firm Ascents left me wanting, I am really coming into the X-Link Ascents, especially with the colder and wetter conditions.

While I am not as picky with my drivers, I am absolutely critical with my mids and putters. For the longest while I resisted using Rocs because in general I hate beaded discs. I admit that I may never be better than an advanced player, but to be competitive there I find that if I cannot park the drive, I NEED to have a spot on approach game that will never fail me. So far this has been the strongest part of my game and I attribute it to a good combination and trust in my mids. Yet I know that it is not perfect, especially with the wild and crazy conditions we can have from day to day in Minnesota.

Having a well-conceived Vibram mid would do wonders for my game. I already like the Ridge for shorter approaches, I am comfortable with the Summit for putting (although I am having far better results with the P2), and with the Ascent obviously carrying the driving workload, having a versitile mid in the X-Link material will be huge when I need a complete line-up of discs that feel great for the certain conditions I am facing at that moment.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

I happen to like the fact that my Buzzz is very flat topped. I think that Vibram can make a mid with a flat top and still get the necessary characteristics.

 

[cfair]

So what I'm getting from you two is the idea that "If Vibram is careful and thoughtful to make the perfect disc then everything will be great"...

I'm sorry but all of that is not very helpful to anyone...

It would be easy for anyone to come in and say "I want Vibram to make a disc like XYZ" because it is the disc that that person uses. Like I could say, I want Vibram to make something like a Comet and some thing like a Roc, because that is what I throw and I would love them in premium material... and really I would. But you'll never settle mid market. Its to thick and there are to many favorites in it.

Discraft: Comet, Meteor, and then the mass of overlap that is the Hive... the Buzzz standing out of course
Innova: Roc, Shark, Cro, Stingray being innova's most popular (with the mako, gator, and spider right behind them)
Lat64: Core, and Fuse with both gaining more popularity
Dismania: brought back the Gremlin as the GM, and their MD2 is doing rather well

MVP just announced their next disc as a mid so people will go ape sh*t over that no matter how good or bad it is. Now with Vibram testing a mid the war between Roc and Buzzz will get both stronger and weaker (weaker in that the mid game is becoming very diluted because there are so many good discs, and stronger because it will show all the more what the best of those discs are... which will be interesting).

So c'mon fellas, lets get back to strong arming Steve Dodge into 1) talking to us and 2) giving us the skinny

 

[captain jack]

Proto Chunk Ridge

I first saw this disc 6 months ago on Clearwaters website.
They called it the "Bloody Green" Ridge, but I knew it was a Christmas Chunk Ridge.
I didnt have the scratch at the time to buy it, and when I went back to find it a month later, it was gone.

A couple weeks ago I was cruising thier site, searched " Ridge " and it popped up at the top of the page. I was stunned, and thought they just had forgot to take it off the website, so I called.

I talked to Wendy, and she said " Oh yeah, thats the one we got from the dealer " and she grabbed it off the wall. I thought it was funny that she said that, I mean dont all discs come from the dealer, but I knew what she meant. Dodge sent those out special.

So I've been waiting a week for it, and it came today.

So lets take a tour, all you Vibram fans come on along, you will enjoy this.
After this post, this disc will be tucked away, I have no plans to ever throw this, or sell or trade it, it goes in the will.

I still am not sure how many of these there are, I have seen picture of 3 or maybe four, ever. I'm sure this would be one of the rarest discs ever made, somewhere up there with the proto IONS with the white overmold.

So here it is;

Here's the interesting part. This disc has the red/green white christmas color scheme, but also has some yellow just outside the green area. The yellow can also clearly be seen near the center of the disc on the back side.
Dodge said, and I quote

Nope. The Christmas Chunks had only red, green and white. We're figuring out how to get swirls in a production run. Sooooo close.

So I'm not sure if the yellow is just bleeding from the green, but if it is, why doesnt the red bleed to orange as it transitions to the white portions ?

So this is a FOUR color Christmas Ridge.

The other interesting thing is, Dodge has said they cant make a really vibrant white disc, but the white sections in this Ridge are titanium white, so I'm not sure why he cant make pure white ones. Either way, I have never seen a super bright white Vibram disc, lots of gray and eggshell, but no pure as the driven snow, white discs.

The Ridge was only a prototype when the Christmas discs were run, so these discs do not have the flight numbers you see on all the production runs.

Ok, thats it. A real Chunk Ridge, hope you enjoyed the tour.

 

[TalbotTrojan]

So what I'm getting from you two is the idea that "If Vibram is careful and thoughtful to make the perfect disc then everything will be great"...

I'm sorry but all of that is not very helpful to anyone...

It would be easy for anyone to come in and say "I want Vibram to make a disc like XYZ" because it is the disc that that person uses. Like I could say, I want Vibram to make something like a Comet and some thing like a Roc, because that is what I throw and I would love them in premium material... and really I would. But you'll never settle mid market. Its to thick and there are to many favorites in it.

Discraft: Comet, Meteor, and then the mass of overlap that is the Hive... the Buzzz standing out of course
Innova: Roc, Shark, Cro, Stingray being innova's most popular (with the mako, gator, and spider right behind them)
Lat64: Core, and Fuse with both gaining more popularity
Dismania: brought back the Gremlin as the GM, and their MD2 is doing rather well

MVP just announced their next disc as a mid so people will go ape sh*t over that no matter how good or bad it is. Now with Vibram testing a mid the war between Roc and Buzzz will get both stronger and weaker (weaker in that the mid game is becoming very diluted because there are so many good discs, and stronger because it will show all the more what the best of those discs are... which will be interesting).

So c'mon fellas, lets get back to strong arming Steve Dodge into 1) talking to us and 2) giving us the skinny

I agree, we need to get back to the two things you mentioned. I am just saying that I would like Vibram to come out with a mid range disc. Since my experience with Vibram to this point is that their discs seem to be a step better than everything else that said disc is comparable to that I would expect their mid range to be the same. I throw out the Buzzz/Roc hybrid because that seems to be what the disc would have to be.

 

[StevenDodge]

I'm reading all of the mid discussion with interest but figured it would be more fun to comment on the chunk Ridge.

1. I think the yellow is coming from the green, sort of like the pink coming from the red. I know there were only three colors put into the mold (not counting the label).
2. The eye popping white can (so far) only be done in the lab on very small batches.
3. I think there were 24 of these discs made, but this is a vague recollection.

 

[captain jack]

Thanks for the info Steve. I went back and looked at the other pics of Christmas Ridges and the all seem to have a little bit of yellow bleeding around the green, so that makes sense.

If you could make discs in that white color, and someone like Apothecary could figure out a way to remove the logo (God forbid) then the dye guys would be much happier.

 

[cfair]

then the dye guys would be much happier.

... but vibram would not want their precious logo tampered with... being in marketing I get it, but being a designer I understand where its a narrow view/hurts a lot of things visually...

but its their standards manual, not mine...

 

[captain jack]

I played 18 holes today with 2 guys I had never seen or played with before.

The unusual part was, all three of us were putting with a Ridge.
One guy had a clone of my speckled robins egg one. Good thing we all had names on them.

It was interesting to see the disc work well for 3 different putting styles.
I putt with my shoulders in line with the basket and finesse them in. The guy with the clone of my disc is a fast push putter with his shoulders squared to the basket, and the other guy was a high flop style putter.

The Ridge was working for everybody. :clap:
__________________________________________________

Hey Steve, did you run any special "stocking stuffers" for your dealers for Christmas this year ?

Sparkle Glow Chunk Ascents ?