What Does A Good Drive Feel Like?

[black udder]

Well, we've talked about snap and all kinds of form details and the best we've come up with is "you'll know it when you do it". I haven't hit 400' yet, but the other day I managed to put 3 shots in a row within 40' of our 350' pin. They were all off to the side more than they were shot, so I figure they were all above 330', which is pretty good distance for me. Now, to try and explain what the good drives felt like.

I was thinking about it and what came to mind was the motion of a Trebuchet.

Your body is the body of the catapult, from your elbow to your shoulder is the arm, from your elbow to your wrist is the string and your wrist hand is the basket and the disc the object in the basket.

When I threw a good shot, it really felt like that motion of slinging an object out of a trebuchet. The body pivoted quickly, my upper arm pulled through fast causing my elbow to bend slightly. I gripped the disc tightly from the start - tighter than I would have thought - my wrist sort of floated through the motion in a semi-loose state. I could feel the weight of the disc as it was pulled through and as it was "snatched" through the pull and into the rip. When it ripped out of my hand I had no other choice by to finish and follow through.

I believe that by increasing my rotational speed and power in my hips and shoulders I could get a little more distance, but considering my age, shape and length of time throwing, I feel I'm close to my max.

Hope the description helps.

 

[headrick-er]

For me, a good drive feels like nothing at all. I don't feel like I forced the disc to fly out of my hand, and I don't necessarily feel much snap. It's just a nice, smooth release that, as I watch it fly, goes a lot further than I thought it was going to.

 

[SkaBob]

I'm with sharkthrower on this one. My best drives always amaze me with how little effort I put into them. I've noticed the most noteworthy sensation in the follow through on my best throws, but I assume that's due in part to my bad throws having off-plane follow through. Everything feels nice and smooth, but on the good throws it really feels like my arm is propelled into the follow through.

 

[black udder]

For me, a good drive feels like nothing at all. I don't feel like I forced the disc to fly out of my hand, and I don't necessarily feel much snap. It's just a nice, smooth release that, as I watch it fly, goes a lot further than I thought it was going to.

While I'll agree that it's like hitting the sweet spot with a good drive, there are lots and lots of folks who are asking "what does snap feel like?" "How do I get snap?" and other questions relating to how the better players throw really far.

I've just made an effort to describe what I believe the mechanics are in terms of what has happened recently. You can say "pull it tight across your chest and coil your wrist, then snap it open at the end and the disc rips out" but that doesn't help much either.

I'm hoping that if somebody goes out and googles the trebuchet they'll have an idea of the motion needed and maybe they'll see how it's happening physically. One thing I do notice on these better drives is that I can feel the weight of the disc - which has not always been the case. I can feel as I transfer the weight from back to front. As for feeling much other than that, not really, but honestly, unless it's cold, I don't feel much on drives anyhow, short or far.

 

[sunspot]

I appreciate you're advice, Udder. I think the human mind is better (imo) at drawing difficult concepts (i.e., the mechanics of throwing a disc efficently) from simple yet informative illustrations, such as the one of the trebuchet.

Here's an example of what Udder is talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tWkSld-Jlk&feature=related

 

[Tree Seeking Device]

Nice that you posted this, I've been meaning to ask this question for a while.

Although I'd really like to know what a good drive feels like from the waist down. I think I've made some good progress on the upper body side of things but I still feel like I'm not getting as much drive from my legs as I could be.

 

[black udder]

Nice that you posted this, I've been meaning to ask this question for a while.

Although I'd really like to know what a good drive feels like from the waist down. I think I've made some good progress on the upper body side of things but I still feel like I'm not getting as much drive from my legs as I could be.

I can't say about a "good drive", but I believe a powerful drive is when you have no choice but to rotate. If you look at the long drive video, you'll see some of the guys almost leaping off the tee box just following their momentum. I've mentioned this before in another thread, but if you want to feel a powerful lower body motion, do this:

Walk into your x-step and as you plant your right left foot, pivot your hips and shoulders back as far as they'll go, when you plant your right foot, lean a little over your right knee and push your hips around as fast as you can. This will begin the rotation of your torso. As soon as you feel your torso start to rotate, you want to rotate your shoulders as fast you can (along with the rotation of your hips). Keep your elbow bent the whole time, or your arm down. Do not try to throw like there is a disc in your hand (it will throw all the blood into your fingers and give you immediate pins and needles).

What you should get is a really powerful and super fast rotation from your lower body. Combine that with the upper body motion of pulling tight to your chest and flicking your wrist at the rip and when the timing is right, you'll get a good drive.

The reason I mention the trebuchet is because you do not want to think of yourself as throwing the disc as much as you are gripping it tightly and you are coiling your body up like a tight spring with a loose "string" (your elbow to your wrist) with a pouch (hand) and rock (disc). When you uncoil this spring quickly, you will fling the disc just like the trebuchet. Your body will be generating the power like the weight does for the trebuchet.

The problem is getting the timing right. If you misfire and let go of the disc, you lose all your compressed power. If you tense up and "throw" the disc, then you are defeating the purpose of the uncoiling. If you don't do both lower body and upper body, you diminish your potential.

When it comes to grip, imagine your hand is like the basket on the trebuchet - it must hold the disc all the way through to the eventual rip or you lose power.

The finish is extending your arm and opening your shoulder as you get to the follow through.

Some of this stuff I can't do because of my flexibility and such, but you younger guys should be able to do this for sure.

 

[Rod Gilmore]

Tree, if you are really driving from your legs, they will be the first part of your body thats gets tired. As far as how they feel when you do it right, that I can't really describe. I might be wrong, people may disagree with me (this is the internet after all) but that's how I can tell after the round or rounds that i was using my legs to generate my power.

Hope that helps somewhat.

 

[Blake_T1]

I believe that by increasing my rotational speed and power in my hips and shoulders I could get a little more distance

speed and power are not the factors you are looking for...

it is the change in speed (aka acceleration) that dictates power.

the peak speed your body hits is not important. what is important is that your hand gets progressively faster throughout.

 

[black udder]

I believe that by increasing my rotational speed and power in my hips and shoulders I could get a little more distance

speed and power are not the factors you are looking for...

it is the change in speed (aka acceleration) that dictates power.

the peak speed your body hits is not important. what is important is that your hand gets progressively faster throughout.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but my thoughts here are if I can increase my power and speed, I'll have a higher range from low to high, thus a greater distance of acceleration to my peak. Right now I just don't feel like I'm getting much from my lower body and too little rotation (especially on the finish and follow through). My goal is to sync my hips/shoulder rotation better and increase my rotational flexibility as much as I can. Plus, lose some fat so it's not such a dang effort to get around.

 

[Blake_T1]

you need to throw with acceleration without using any lower body... then learn how to make your lower body accelerate your upper body.

99% of players i know that worry about raw armspeed have negative acceleration at the rip.

start with the disc at the left edge of your right pectoral and practice accelerating from there from almost a stationary stance. by the time you are faced up all of your weight should be on your front foot. the power zone is from the right pectoral and forwards.

you are better off going from 0 to 30 and rip than from 0 to 50 to that same point and then from 50 to 40 until the rip.

 

[Tree Seeking Device]

Tree, if you are really driving from your legs, they will be the first part of your body thats gets tired. As far as how they feel when you do it right, that I can't really describe. I might be wrong, people may disagree with me (this is the internet after all) but that's how I can tell after the round or rounds that i was using my legs to generate my power.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Yup, that tells me I'm doing something wrong. My legs almost never get tired, usually it's my shoulder. :?

Some good advice in this thread, thanks everybody.

 

[garublador1]

Here's something I've been wondering. Does forearm fatigue indicate anything useful? I noticed that last season my forearm was getting tired by the end of a long session. Does that mean I'm doing something right or just gripping hard?

 

[black udder]

perhaps throwing too many times?

Might be gripping too long (as in gripping tight through your whole prep/throw instead of just as you pull back.

 

[mark12b]

Nice that you posted this, I've been meaning to ask this question for a while.

Although I'd really like to know what a good drive feels like from the waist down. I think I've made some good progress on the upper body side of things but I still feel like I'm not getting as much drive from my legs as I could be.

when i get a good pull i can feel my left thigh really driving the start of the rotation.

 

[Timko]

you need to throw with acceleration without using any lower body... then learn how to make your lower body accelerate your upper body.

99% of players i know that worry about raw armspeed have negative acceleration at the rip.

start with the disc at the left edge of your right pectoral and practice accelerating from there from almost a stationary stance. by the time you are faced up all of your weight should be on your front foot. the power zone is from the right pectoral and forwards.

you are better off going from 0 to 30 and rip than from 0 to 50 to that same point and then from 50 to 40 until the rip.

Blake, should the forearm whip begin when the disc is on the left pec, or should you be bring the disc to the right pec, bending the elbow even more, then accelerating though the whip? I know we talked about not rotating as the disc is coming into the body, but I'm still not exactly sure where to begin shifting my weight forward, and when I should begin opening towards the target line.

 

[Timko]

Blake, please respond to my question!

 

[Blake_T1]

the forearm doesn't extend until after the disc passes the right pectoral.

but keep in mind that as the disc is passing that point, the shoulders open up again.

 

[IowaDiscGolf]

My driving sucks right now but I blame the fact that I haven't practiced driving for 3.5 months (thanks mother nature.) When I am driving well, I'm staying light on my feet (balls of my feet, not heels) and maintaining as much visual contact with the target throughout the throw as possible, and while it feels effortless it's only because I've brought the timing together. This is happening about 1% of the time right now. When I jam the pivot leg, short arm it, drop the shoulder, come over the top, or let the nose get up, life sucks.