What is the best way to make courses challenging for the DGPT?

[oldmandiscer]

I can't read!!!!

Reading comprehension isn't your thing. You just made another bogey with your post.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Maybe a course with these baskets would make you happy.

 

[txmxer]

Maybe a course with these baskets would make you happy.

Reading comprehension isn't your thing.

Tiny baskets at ground level with manicured fairways is the ONLY thing that will save disc golf.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Seeing way too many layups at the LVC.

The baskets on top of mounds, next to hazard bunkers, next to ropes, on steep slopes are only encouraging 4 upper echelon MPO players toss the disc under the basket from 40 feet on a hole (almost no wind too!). On one hole Jacky Chen does run the putt from 40, hit's the basket, then rolls 50 feet down the hill. Then he lays it up under the basket.

I'd prefer not to watch so many layups.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

You just don't get it.
No one cares what you prefer.
You're just one person with a bug up your rectum.

 

[oldmandiscer]

You just don't get it.
No one cares what you prefer.
You're just one person with a bug up your rectum.

They should because I watch just about every disc golf event.

So back to the topic. We have had far too many layups at the LVC and I am not a fan of watching the best in the world layup from 35-40 feet. In no wind no less! I could understand if the wind was blowing 30 mph. But it was like 5. You couldn't get better scoring conditions.

 

[strunk flugget]

They should because I watch just about every disc golf event.

So back to the topic. We have had far too many layups at the LVC and I am not a fan of watching the best in the world layup from 35-40 feet. In no wind no less! I could understand if the wind was blowing 30 mph. But it was like 5. You couldn't get better scoring conditions.

Fountain Hills is generally accepted as one of the easier courses. And coverage commented (I think) on two holes that were missing branches/tress that reduced the difficulty of a hole, fwiw.

It's awfully pretentious to think that DGPT should listen to your opinion because you watch every event when the majority of people on here disagree with your takes. DGPT needs to take into account the Pro's opinion as well as the general consensus of the fan base.

That said...one of the things ball golf has that disc golf will never have due to physics is the ground play. We can't have sloping greens with bumps, ridges, slopes etc. which is ultimately what makes putting in ball golf several magnitudes more difficult.

One obvious solution to make putting more difficult is to make the target smaller. I think the trade-off is that you will see players lay up to the basket and tap in whenever they are <insert the average distance threshold for risk> feet away from the target.

A new thought I had, to sort of introduce the ground play that ball golf has would be to blank-off portions of the basket and reduce chain count. So maybe a basket has only exactly half presented where the other half is covered. Or a basket could have multiple sized panels to prevent putting from a certain direction or make it more difficult.

I honestly think going back to targets with single chain patterns instead of this double and triple chain stuff would make it difficult enough to sink putts but not so far as to cause the pro's to lay-up all the time.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Fountain Hills is generally accepted as one of the easier courses. And coverage commented (I think) on two holes that were missing branches/tress that reduced the difficulty of a hole, fwiw.

It's awfully pretentious to think that DGPT should listen to your opinion because you watch every event when the majority of people on here disagree with your takes. DGPT needs to take into account the Pro's opinion as well as the general consensus of the fan base.

That said...one of the things ball golf has that disc golf will never have due to physics is the ground play. We can't have sloping greens with bumps, ridges, slopes etc. which is ultimately what makes putting in ball golf several magnitudes more difficult.

One obvious solution to make putting more difficult is to make the target smaller. I think the trade-off is that you will see players lay up to the basket and tap in whenever they are <insert the average distance threshold for risk> feet away from the target.

A new thought I had, to sort of introduce the ground play that ball golf has would be to blank-off portions of the basket and reduce chain count. So maybe a basket has only exactly half presented where the other half is covered. Or a basket could have multiple sized panels to prevent putting from a certain direction or make it more difficult.

I honestly think going back to targets with single chain patterns instead of this double and triple chain stuff would make it difficult enough to sink putts but not so far as to cause the pro's to lay-up all the time.

I'm for lowering the basket height as well 3-6 inches. Running a putt and staying within 10-15 feet would be even easier versus raising the basket to 6 feet and seeing putts fly by 25-30 feet.

Layups happen when they keep putting the basket 10 feet from OB or on severe slopes plus having raised baskets. We should be doing the opposite. Even lower then the current standard.

A 15 footer on this new hypothetical basket would still be very high percentage so not running a putt would result in higher scores versus the field.

Another idea I have seen is you could add a guard to current baskets. What I am thinking is a steel bar that attaches to the outside of the tray to the top band but bends out in the middle a little bit to give room for the disc. You can somewhat block out certain putts that way just like your idea but leave the chains alone. Though I think this idea is a little on the gimmicky side, I'm for anything to make putting more challenging, intriguing and add some drama.

 

[DavidSauls]

A new thought I had, to sort of introduce the ground play that ball golf has would be to blank-off portions of the basket and reduce chain count. So maybe a basket has only exactly half presented where the other half is covered. Or a basket could have multiple sized panels to prevent putting from a certain direction or make it more difficult.

There's a big difference between making putting harder from one side, and blocking off one side.

Making it harder would create a favorable side of the green, which would be good. (This is already done in some places, with other design elements).

Blocking off half the basket would be horrible. A lie a few feet into the wrong side would force a little layup, then a tap-in. Furthermore, attempts from the good side would have to be curtailed, for risks of extra 2 strokes if you miss.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Why does DG have to be more like ball golf?

Yes, the surface of the green makes putting in Ball Golf much more difficult. But holding lines through the well-wooded holes, and escape shots from brush are unique to disc golf, and definitely increase challenge, and reward consistency, creativity, and those who can hit lines most others just can't... Eagle, Simon, KJUSA's grenade.

I ENJOY watching players run big putts (C2 and beyond) - Conrad Country, Jump Putt Jones, Eagle doing Eagle things. I think the tradeoff is that just about anything that would make C1 putts more challenging, will make C2 putts less interesting, resulting in more layups, especially in windy conditions or hilly terrain where rollaways are a consideration.

I get the idea of a basket favoring shots from a certain direction, but I don't like the idea of rigging baskets to do so. I'd prefer to see baskets positioned near slopes, dropoffs, around trees, etc such that players who place approaches are rewarded with easier putts, by virtue of the property's natural attributes.

I think part of the "problem" is the the DGPT plays too many long, open golf course style courses, where distance is disproportionately rewarded over line shaping, placement and finesse.

Good courses have a variety of holes, that reward different skill sets. Gimme moar of THAT.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Why does DG have to be more like ball golf?

Yes, the surface of the green makes putting in Ball Golf much more difficult. But holding lines through the well-wooded holes, and escape shots from brush are unique to disc golf, and definitely increase challenge, and reward consistency, creativity, and those who can hit lines most others just can't... Eagle, Simon, KJUSA's grenade.

I ENJOY watching players run big putts (C2 and beyond) - Conrad Country, Jump Putt Jones, Eagle doing Eagle things. I think the tradeoff is that just about anything that would make C1 putts more challenging, will make C2 putts less interesting, resulting in more layups, especially in windy conditions or hilly terrain where rollaways are a consideration.

I get the idea of a basket favoring shots from a certain direction, but I don't like the idea of rigging baskets to do so. I'd prefer to see baskets positioned near slopes, dropoffs, around trees, etc such that players who place approaches are rewarded with easier putts, by virtue of the property's natural attributes.

I think part of the "problem" is the the DGPT plays too many long, open golf course style courses, where distance is disproportionately rewarded over line shaping, placement and finesse.

Good courses have a variety of holes, that reward different skill sets. Gimme moar of THAT.

Why does disc golf try and be like ball golf in every way except putting? Why does a 20 footer have to be a gimme putt for the top pro level?

It doesn't have to be. You don't like layups? Then you don't like the current trend of disc golf. Because we already have that now.

I'm in favor of lowering the basket to make running long putts easier. Getting rid of OB 10 feet from the basket, the basket on top of a mound with roll aways into OB, the 6 foot high basket with OB 20 feet away. Players layup because the risk of missing costs not one shot, but another one or two. You miss a 45 footer and rolls 25 feet into OB or in a hazard bunker. Now you have a 25 footer for bogey. The risk of missing and rolling into OB is too severe to run a longer putt now.

 

[strunk flugget]

Why does DG have to be more like ball golf?

It absolutely doesn't, I figured I would spit ball some ideas I had since the basis of this thread (or threads similar to this one) continues to come back to ball golf being significantly more difficult from a putting stand point. I am personally happy with the way things are but would be curious to see the impact of certain things relating to changing the target.

 

[oldmandiscer]

It absolutely doesn't, I figured I would spit ball some ideas I had since the basis of this thread (or threads similar to this one) continues to come back to ball golf being significantly more difficult from a putting stand point. I am personally happy with the way things are but would be curious to see the impact of certain things relating to changing the target.

No one is saying make it the same as ball golf either. But the difference between a 20 foot gimme putt in disc golf and a 3 foot gimme putt in ball golf couldn't be more polarizing.

We can go to 15 foot gimmes and still not even be in the same universe. That is all I am asking for.

I realize we are throwing a disc and a 10-15 footer is a reasonable distance to try and make a 45-60 footer and still stay within versus 20-40 feet players seem to fly by now (considering raised baskets on the long end). You can't go to ball golf percentages where a 10 footer is 40%. It has to be closer to 95-99%. Otherwise players will layup more often and that isn't fun to watch. That is what we want to get rid of now. Layups are currently a problem.

So all I am saying is make putting more difficult then now. 40 feet shouldn't be a good shot. Players just getting it within 30 feet to make the putt shouldn't be nearly automatic.

Players should be rewarded for putting it within 10 feet. Not just get it close enough.

The ease of putting has created so many problems to make holes difficult.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

You know how some songs get overplayed?

 

[oldmandiscer]

You know how some songs get overplayed?

You said make it like ball golf and that isn't the goal nor is it realistic which I explained. The goal is to make the game better to play, to watch and to reward skillful play.