Why Directional Aid Illegal?

[Cgkdisc]

There would have to be someone on each card dedicated to the phone camera/video for that to work and be fair, I doubt that happens.

If you know that photo evidence is allowed, you either take a camera or typically your phone if you are concerned that there won't be one available in your group should the situation arise.

 

[Jay Dub]

If you know that photo evidence is allowed, you either take a camera or typically your phone if you are concerned that there won't be one available in your group should the situation arise.

What are you getting on video? Who is holding that while everyone throws?

Or is it just for calls like "Is this OB or not"?

 

[Cgkdisc]

What are you getting on video? Who is holding that while everyone throws?

Or is it just for calls like "Is this OB or not"?

In Minnesota, some leagues have Bonus Ace pools separate from the general ace pool. If you pay into the Bonus Ace pool, you or someone in your group has to video your tee shots on the designated Bonus Ace holes to capture video proof of your ace. These pools have regularly gotten up to several thousands of dollars. Granted, it's not a PDGA rule but a reason for video confirmation. A more common use of video might be filming arguments/fights or even short point/counterpoint discussions that could help the TD resolve an issue.

 

[BillFleming]

Ball golf allows you to use an alignment aid anywhere on the course....it just has to be "removed" before you swing. You can put a club on the ground with the shaft showing you the line you want, take your stance, move the club away, and take your swing. You can have your caddy stand on a hill you have to hit over and show you the line, once you are ready to swing, the caddy must move off the line. I forget the tournament, but I recall a player getting penalized due to carrying two clubs to their ball, putting one on the ground and swinging the other. He claimed he wasn't sure which club he would need, made his decision and discarded the other one, but the officials determined he put the club down in a way that it showed his swing direction.

Disc golf, doesn't allow alignment aids of any kind to be placed. But you can use aids. You can have another player stand at the top of a hill and show you the line to basket, but then they must move prior to your throw.

We as players cannot place any alignment/directional aids.....but the TD is allowed to do that. That's the difference between placing your bag at the top of a hill and the TD placing a pole or flag to show the straight line from the tee pad to the basket on a blind shot.

 

[Steve West]

Related to phones having GPS for distance measurement (note that PDGA course directory/live scoring does not have this), now that live scoring with phones has become common, the phones also have photo and video capability. One key reason photo/video evidence has been disallowed for rulings was few players carried a camera. So now?

So now start another thread.

 

[dmoore1998]

Was this really something that was happening in disc golf too?

No, because disc golf can use rangefinders. So there was no need for disc golf to go through all that hassle.

It also meant disc golf didn't need to jump through hoops to use digital scoring, since phones have gps to give measurements too and you'd have to monitor everyone's cell phone usage while simultaneously trying to get folks to use their phones for scoring.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Technology can be good/useful, but I think we should strive to keep DG simple wherever we we can.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Technology can be good/useful, but I think we should strive to keep DG simple wherever we we can.

I think you have to separate competition (5-10% of play) from rec play. While technology has been useful for competition, it's not necessary for rec play. However, the more technology available to the sport, the better chance it will have to retain players if not attract them in the first place. Social media, videos, vblogs, scoring apps with GPS, rangefinders all contribute a contemporary feel to counter the attraction of esports but we at least get players outdoors and moving.

 

[dmoore1998]

I think you have to separate competition (5-10% of play) from rec play. While technology has been useful for competition, it's not necessary for rec play. However, the more technology available to the sport, the better chance it will have to retain players if not attract them in the first place. Social media, videos, vblogs, scoring apps with GPS, rangefinders all contribute a contemporary feel to counter the attraction of esports but we at least get players outdoors and moving.

It's also a pretty decent attempt at providing lower level or new professionals with a fighting chance at the same information bigtime pros have. Imagine the advantage a top, sponsored pro has at a course with the resources to send someone out, get distance/elevation readings from just about everywhere, and then play with a pro that has a full-time job and maybe got a practice round in the day before but not much more.

Also disc golf, in comparison to ball golf, seems to have a LOT tighter OB in many places...hence the difference between "parked" and "sorry OB" might be 30-40 feet...which even the best of us aren't going to be great at judging from 500 feet away.

I would probably argue that using a rangefinder is "simple" in comparison to what the alternative methods might be of getting distances for top pros (presumably similar to what ball golf has been doing for decades).

 

[krupicka]

The origins of the rule were prior to hitting your own equipment penalties. It was an expansion of don't change the course philosophy. With penalties in place for hitting your equipment, my opinion is that the directional aid prohibition rule is not necessary from that perspective. If players would actually start calling out players on excessive time, then the directional aid prohibition could probably be removed.

 

[Steve West]

The origins of the rule were prior to hitting your own equipment penalties. It was an expansion of don't change the course philosophy. With penalties in place for hitting your equipment, my opinion is that the directional aid prohibition rule is not necessary from that perspective. If players would actually start calling out players on excessive time, then the directional aid prohibition could probably be removed.

There is very little connection, if any, between the hitting your own equipment rule and placing an object. Any object placed will hardly ever be hit.

If placing an object to aim at became a "thing", it would slow down things significantly. Even if a player could run up and place something and come back and complete their throw within 30 seconds of when they should have first been at the lie, it will take them some time to do go place that object. And adjust it to be in just the right place. Time which is not being wasted now.

And, like turning your back when somebody is putting, players will erroneously pick up on it and assume they must place an object. Or at least get the idea that they are at a disadvantage if they don't. Players will be doing it more often than just for those situations where it would make sense

And, the notion that you get extra time for placing an object will take hold (just as a lot of players already think you get "a reasonable amount of time to throw"), so it will become a way to scout an unfamiliar fairway.

It also places a player "down range" from the other throwing players.

But, that's just speculation. Let's test before deciding.

 

[Rastnav]

I mean, is this really a rule that's asking to be fixed? Just because one player every now and then serves as an object lesson in what happens when you don't actually know the rules, that's not a particular good argument for needing to change it.

I guess I don't really see any positive case arguing for this rule to change. Plus, who wants to encourage courses that don't already have features you can aim at?

 

[Nale72]

Ball golf allows you to use an alignment aid anywhere on the course....it just has to be "removed" before you swing. You can put a club on the ground with the shaft showing you the line you want, take your stance, move the club away, and take your swing.

**OT**

In general everything in this post was valid, but just to not spread "ghost rules", even if it for "ball golf", I just have to make a correction here.

It is true that you earlier were allowed to place a club on the ground as alignment aid as long as you picked it up befor you made your stroke. However this is now changeed since the rules as of 2019 and is no longer allowed:

(3) No Setting Down Object to Help in Taking Stance. A player must not take a stance for the stroke using any object that was set down by or for the player to help in lining up his or her feet or body, such as a club set down on the ground to show the line of play.

If the player takes a stance in breach of this Rule, he or she cannot avoid penalty by backing away from the stance and removing the object.

https://www.randa.org/en/rog/2019/rules/the-rules-of-golf/rule-10#10-2b

 

[biscoe]

I think you have to separate competition (5-10% of play) from rec play. While technology has been useful for competition, it's not necessary for rec play. However, the more technology available to the sport, the better chance it will have to retain players if not attract them in the first place. Social media, videos, vblogs, scoring apps with GPS, rangefinders all contribute a contemporary feel to counter the attraction of esports but we at least get players outdoors and moving.

You mean "casual" play. "Rec" is a competitive division albeit a poorly named one. (Pedantic I know but have been hearing a lot of kvetching about divisional names lately)

 

[ChrisWoj]

In casual play my friends and I have helped with blind up shots to know where the giant basket is. Mainly it is a time saver.

Like many rules in DG, I assume it is a FairPlay rule. If the sport evolves such that everyone has this type if assistance it is still fair play. Until then it seems reasonable.

*jumps around waving arms like a maniac behind the basket so friend can see it through the woods*

 

[Horsman]

You mean "casual" play. "Rec" is a competitive division albeit a poorly named one. (Pedantic I know but have been hearing a lot of kvetching about divisional names lately)

Thread Drift

Have people really been complaining about what divisions are named?

 

[krupicka]

Thread Drift

Have people really been complaining about what divisions are named?

Yes people do. There are plenty of players who play MA2 because they are not "Recreational" or "Novice" even if that's where their rating puts them.

 

[biscoe]

Thread Drift

Have people really been complaining about what divisions are named?

Why are "recreational" players in tournaments? Why are players who have played for years "novices"? A player who plays 20 tournaments a year isn't a "recreational" player... I could go on and on. Generally comes from either older players who didn't get into an event or long time players who insist on playing divisions inappropriate for themselves.

 

[Jay Dub]

Open and AM are the only two divisions that should be offered.

That would fix the problem of registering for a tournament.

 

[biscoe]

Open and AM are the only two divisions that should be offered.

That would fix the problem of registering for a tournament.

While that would indeed set the game far enough back to curb demand to some slight degree players would still want to play so it would really only serve to screw select portions of the player base.