[Innova] Wiggins Tour Series Destroyer in ProShop

[natedg1976]

Nate- Do you know if molds wear out over time? Can they use the same mold over 10 years or longer?

I don't discount that other tops may have been used but a majority of the time what you see is just like you stated. It all comes down to plastic blend and cooling. This is why every run has variations. Once you find one you like you better stock up.

Absolutely molds wear out over time. It happens to the point where we have told customers, " Look, this mold is past its life span. Unless you are willin to pay for it to be repaired, what you see is what you get." Here is the thing. In my place, we can get past that lifespan in a year. The lifespan of a mold being able to produce reasonably consistent parts is variable as well. It depends on size. The more moving parts in the mold, the smaller the part, the lower its life span. For something like a disc, which is rather large, and probably does not have many moving parts, that lifespan is going to be pretty long.

I know my previous post came of as pretty mean. I am just trying to put things in perspective for all of you. Discs are pretty insignificant as compared to the parts for sleep apnea machines or organ transplant containers like I make. Discs are for fun, the stuff I deal with is literally life and death. That being said, I understand everyone's frustration at the inconsistencies, if my company were that inconsistent, we would lose customers. But, to be fair, if we were that inconsistent, people would be dying and it would be national news.

 

[notroman]

Nate please explain the different scrape marks from removing the patent marks. Different tops have been used in the past couple years.

What Nate is saying is that the tops used have all been the same (just one top mold), but due to different plastic blends they have cooled differently and thus have taken on different final shapes.

If you shine a light on the underside of a new Destroyer you can see where the patent numbers used to be. There are very faint scrape marks from where they took the patent numbers off the mold. Which means it's the same mold they used for the patent numbered Destroyers.

 

[cjman]

So don't you think these molds would cost less due to greater tolerances? Your estimates for a mold piece are high. You don't know what we know Nate.

 

[Anon]

So don't you think these molds would cost less due to greater tolerances?

Probably. But not much.

Industurial-grade parts are not cheap. Ever.

 

[bhadella]

Totally ripped from another thread:

The "core (bottom cavity)" where patent numbers used to be is different from the "wing cavity" and "flight plate cavity" that would make up the shape of the disc. Hence, the patent numbers or markings of the underside of the disc indicate nothing about the type of "top" of the disc.

 

[Future_Primitive]

So don't you think these molds would cost less due to greater tolerances? Your estimates for a mold piece are high. You don't know what we know Nate.

Not sure "greater" is the right word to use, I assume you meant to say a wider acceptable tolerance variance. But I would say no, they would not cost less as the mold maker is not the one experiencing the tolerance issue. The tolerance variance is coming from the injection molder who wants to keep the scrap rate low and produce as much product for resale as possible.

[Insert Disc Company] does not tell the mold maker to get it close to what we want, they most likely have a very tight tolerance specified when they pay big money for a mold to be made. Getting tight tolerances on metal is a whole lot easier than doing it on plastics.

The tolerance issue comes directly from the molder, ie disc company, on what they are willing to allow pass and fail. Being as discs are not medical implants and such they are going to be more generous with what they allow vs a medical company who will be very strict.

 

[cjman]

I would like my mold lathed to 12.0 inches, is different than 12.00 inches. By a long shot. So the tolerance is greater. Plus minus 0.04 vs 0.004 will drastically change the cost of producing the mold piece.

We are not talking about final specs for pass fails, but having a machinist cut a mold to size.

 

[cjman]

I'm not sure why the cost of these is a factor, the different cores being used are all from existing, different molds.

 

[Future_Primitive]

I would like my mold lathed to 12.0 inches, is different than 12.00 inches. By a long shot. So the tolerance is greater. Plus minus 0.04 vs 0.004 will drastically change the cost of producing the mold piece.

We are not talking about final specs for pass fails, but having a machinist cut a mold to size.

Generally speaking machinist use "tighter" and "looser" when discussing tolerances, not "greater" which can be misleading. As 0.04" is greater than 0.004" mathematically speaking which can lead to confusion. :thmbup:

And a tighter tolerance doesn't "drastically" change the cost of producing the mold piece. It does drastically change the amount of QC's but not necessarily the actual machining process. Taking a few more thousandths off a part can be as simple as adding in one final finish pass on the part to get it right in line with the tolerance range.

Either way you are still hogging out a ton of material from the blank which is going to take time. And in this case we are not talking about a production run of molds but a 1 off run. First piece inspection is going to be the same on 12.0" vs 12.00" regardless. If they were making 10,000 molds then loosening the mold tolerance would cut down on some cost, but they are only making 1 so it would be hard to cut any cost out of the process.

The disc companies get enough complaints about inconsistency already with a high dollar mold, now you want them to cut cost and use lesser quality molds? Just doesn't make sense.

 

[Romans 5-8]

Mail Call!!! A ton of pink, but I did ask for bright, I was just hoping for a blue one or two. Still a nice selection. I didn't want any of those plain white ones.

 

[natedg1976]

So don't you think these molds would cost less due to greater tolerances? Your estimates for a mold piece are high. You don't know what we know Nate.

Actually, I know way, way more than you could ever begin to know. The injection molding business is my livelihood. It is how I pay my bills and put food on my plate. So please pray tell what do you know about mold cost that I do not there pal. Until you can actually shed some knowledge on the subject like I have I suggest you be quiet about what I do and do not know.

At my work we have a mold that just the one core piece which is 2 inches in diameter and 30 inches long cost our company 25,000 dollars to be made. The entire mold itself cost 250,000 dollars. So, I am pretty sure I am quite close on my estimate of how much it costs to make one half of a disc golf disc mold.

CJ you have contributed nothing but complaints and speculation to this thread. You have no knowledge of the injection molding industry, nor their practices. So, unless you would like to continue to look like a fool, I would not call someone who does know the business, back to front, on the floor.

 

[natedg1976]

Totally ripped from another thread:

The "core (bottom cavity)" where patent numbers used to be is different from the "wing cavity" and "flight plate cavity" that would make up the shape of the disc. Hence, the patent numbers or markings of the underside of the disc indicate nothing about the type of "top" of the disc.

Thank you for this. Once again showing that CJMan is wrong in saying the top is different using patent numbers as a reason. If something is different because of patent numbers, it would be the wing of the mold which is the bottom of the disc.

 

[pnasalberta]

How do these things fly?

 

[Romans 5-8]

How do these things fly?

I know huh? All this talk and arguing, but no info on how they fly.

Going to test them out RIGHT NOW!!!! They feel beefy as hell, I will let you know in a few hours homie.

 

[:::LSWT:::]

Mail Call!!! A ton of pink, but I did ask for bright, I was just hoping for a blue one or two. Still a nice selection. I didn't want any of those plain white ones.

i just had to enlarge your pic! that's a pretty cool assortment. :thmbup:

 

[:::LSWT:::]

clean pic:

 

[kevinmzane]

Another sweet disc for a bunch of dorks to hang on their walls or store in plastic bags....

 

[Romans 5-8]

Another sweet disc for a bunch of dorks to hang on their walls or store in plastic bags....

OR, throw the crap out of, like all day.....every day.

 

[brian j]

that's an awesome looking disc. i'd throw it.

 

[Romans 5-8]

So I finally threw a few yesterday. Took my basket out with a couple friends in a field and bombed like ten of my destroyers to compare. It's a beefster, I mean SUPER beefy for me. I know it's new, but she is a meathook right now, keep in mind the fact that my max d throwing flat is about 380, with an anny flex I can get farther sometimes, but these wiggins flew almost as overstable as my champ destroyers. The closest star destroyer in flight was my new super domey pair of AJs. This will be my headwind disc until it beats in real nice. I got the 175, so maybe the lighter ones won't fight back so much, but I doubt there is much of a difference.