"You Might Need New Discs"

[AlphaFoxFL]

Just a disclaimer, I am very new to the sport and am still trying to understand everything in the game, so forgive me if what this post contains just sounds stupid, but I want to get better so I might as well ask a forum.

I've played a few rounds recently and noticed a trend that is killing my score: I can't achieve any considerable distance on throws. Because of this, when others are at the hole in 1-2 throws, I'm aiming to putt in the amount it takes for par (typically 3). This makes birdies impossible, pars extremely difficult, and bogeys very common.

Since I am new, I only have four discs in my bag:
> Innova DX Leopard [6|5|-2|1]
> Innova DX Cobra [4|5|-2|2]
> Innova DX Shark [4|4|0|2]
> Innova DX Aviar [3|2|0|1]

I constantly find that my only "good" shot is a decently wide anheizer, typically landing right ahead of me and reaching 150-160ft. If I try to throw a reasonably straight shot, the distance goes down to only about 100-125ft. I may be a beginner, but I know that these are terrible numbers.

I have been searching online and asking around, as I'm trying to find the root of this problem. At first I thought it was my technique, then my release angle, disc angle (heizers/stable/anheizers), and everything in-between, yet nothing so far has worked.

My constant researching and endless hours of throwing with no sign of a good result stopped when I heard something that caught me off-guard. A "disc golf basics instructional" video made a statement that "If you're throwing too hard for a disc (on a RHBH), it will fade to the right rather than to the left."

This threw me for a spin. As a beginner, I've heard tons of times that "You shouldn't go for higher speed discs, as you won't have the strength for them," and I haven't even dared touch anything beyond my speed-6 Leopard. When I was just starting out and had crappy, weak technique, my shots were flying more straight (but not as far) even with more effort, typically getting some nice S-curve. But now that I have better technique with more arm extension and rip, suddenly all my shots are fading right despite all efforts to compensate.

Another thing I have heard in my studies is that you "shouldn't upgrade until you can throw your mids 300ft and your putters 250ft." But, if the speed thing is true, how am I supposed to get a 300ft mid throw when even with a good mix between power and curve, I can get at max 175ft...?

I'm just lost, and this is something I really want to fix before I get back out for 9- or 18-holes... Any criticism, advice, help, pointers, anything, would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in-advance...!

 

[WeatherWimp]

A lot of people will repeat what they've read as disc golf maxims or rules, such as the throw only a putter/midrange until you are throwing 250/300 feet. Like a lot of those general rules they don't apply to all people in all situations are and just that a general idea.

There is validity in throwing discs like putters and midrange and learning how discs fly on different release angles, yet there is also validity in selecting fairway drivers and learning to throw nose down along your path to improvement too. So don't be afraid to try control / fairway drivers too (so up to speed 9 or so) but yes, likely shy clear of true distance drivers of 10 or more. That is unless you like watching your discs crash to the left 150 feet in front of you.

What weights are your throwing? 150-160 gr discs for beginners are good learning tools. Winds in the double digits may push them around some so you can go into 160s....but unless you have good arm speed not sure throwing discs in the 170s make sense (except for putters or shorter range discs).

DX plastic can beat in pretty fast and become a lot more under stable than the flight numbers indicate on the disc, which may explain why they are fading right for you now. Or you could feel like you are throwing with hyzer or flat but maybe doing anhyzer?

Filming yourself is a great way to see what your throw is like , then compare it to some of the forms in the sticky on this site in the form analysis section and see what you can do to get closer to the good thrower's form.

Edit: Forgot to add play shorter courses too. It isn't any fun throwing less than 200 feet on a course that has 7-8 500+ foot holes. Try to find one that has a lot in the 200-250 range, even if it is just a small 9 hole course in a city park. It'll keep the game more interesting for you and when you are blowing by those baskets move up to longer course?

 

[Armus Patheticus]

If you're throwing 160 feet you aren't overpowering your leopard, and your form is abysmal. Don't be offended, that's the way it is. A halfway competent thrower can keep that beat up sucker flying straight and even get some left fade at 300'.

 

[wolfhaley]

Are you left or right handed? FH or BH? It's hard to say one way or another without some more info.

 

[armiller]

Here's a classic thread on How to Build a Bag. It's a great intro to disc selection as you begin to play. It's a few years old, so not all of those discs are as common today as they used to be...

But form is probably your biggest issue. One nice intro video is this one by Barry Schultz:


A disc golf throw is complicated. You probably have lots of things that can use improve. Think of it as lots of easy ways (although sometimes not so easy) to gain distance.

 

[AlphaFoxFL]

I forgot to specify there, Armus. Thanks for the pointing that out. the 150-160ft is for mids, and that's just the point they land (since the field I practice in doesn't allow for any skid or roll). I'm getting closer to 200ft with my Leopard. As I said, I know that I'm a beginner and I unfortunately have to rely on the Internet for learning, so my technique is bound to be pretty terrible. That's why I'm coming to the forum, to try and improve and get some answers that aren't just stapled on YouTube or a website somewhere, so thanks for your comment.

Thanks for bringing up the thing about the high-speed fairway and low-speed distance drivers for beginners, because I've been playing with a few people who have been playing for a few weeks longer than I have and they got themselves each a low-speed distance driver and they've had clean throws with them as well as lower scores because of the added distance. A distance driver is certainly not something I want to get right this moment, as I feel like I need to improve with my Leopard, Shark, and Aviar a lot more and get more distance on them before I try to add to the confusion, but that was something that did make me think a bit.

Thanks for both of your responses. Hopefully the weather down here in Florida will be dry tomorrow so I can get back to work throwing tomorrow.

 

[AlphaFoxFL]

Great video there, Armiller...! I have been trying to focus more on a balanced and "smooth" throw, have been going straighter, but also not as far. I noticed on his "backswing" there, he had his disc tilted up, then brought it to level as he threw it, is that something to take note of, or is that just something he himself got used to...? Thanks for the response...!

And to answer your question, Wolf, I throw right-handed backhands.

Thank you both as well...!

 

[RoDeO]

Just a disclaimer, I am very new to the sport and am still trying to understand everything in the game, so forgive me if what this post contains just sounds stupid, but I want to get better so I might as well ask a forum.

I've played a few rounds recently and noticed a trend that is killing my score: I can't achieve any considerable distance on throws. Because of this, when others are at the hole in 1-2 throws, I'm aiming to putt in the amount it takes for par (typically 3). This makes birdies impossible, pars extremely difficult, and bogeys very common.

Since I am new, I only have four discs in my bag:
> Innova DX Leopard [6|5|-2|1]
> Innova DX Cobra [4|5|-2|2]
> Innova DX Shark [4|4|0|2]
> Innova DX Aviar [3|2|0|1]

I constantly find that my only "good" shot is a decently wide anheizer, typically landing right ahead of me and reaching 150-160ft. If I try to throw a reasonably straight shot, the distance goes down to only about 100-125ft. I may be a beginner, but I know that these are terrible numbers.

I have been searching online and asking around, as I'm trying to find the root of this problem. At first I thought it was my technique, then my release angle, disc angle (heizers/stable/anheizers), and everything in-between, yet nothing so far has worked.

My constant researching and endless hours of throwing with no sign of a good result stopped when I heard something that caught me off-guard. A "disc golf basics instructional" video made a statement that "If you're throwing too hard for a disc (on a RHBH), it will fade to the right rather than to the left."

This threw me for a spin. As a beginner, I've heard tons of times that "You shouldn't go for higher speed discs, as you won't have the strength for them," and I haven't even dared touch anything beyond my speed-6 Leopard. When I was just starting out and had crappy, weak technique, my shots were flying more straight (but not as far) even with more effort, typically getting some nice S-curve. But now that I have better technique with more arm extension and rip, suddenly all my shots are fading right despite all efforts to compensate.

Another thing I have heard in my studies is that you "shouldn't upgrade until you can throw your mids 300ft and your putters 250ft." But, if the speed thing is true, how am I supposed to get a 300ft mid throw when even with a good mix between power and curve, I can get at max 175ft...?

I'm just lost, and this is something I really want to fix before I get back out for 9- or 18-holes... Any criticism, advice, help, pointers, anything, would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in-advance...!

When I injured my right arm from overuse as a beginner I taught myself to throw left. After a few weeks I changed my grip. I found that I could no longer throw my light leopard at all- just turned over into a roller and couldn't break the 200 foot mark. So, I got out my fastest discs and threw them (speed 9-11) and was instantly rewarded with distance as they no longer turned over. Do yourself a favor and don't listen to all that mumbo jumbo about never throwing a driver until you can throw a midrange 300 feet. Go buy yourself at least one distance driver with a decent weight (170 g) and Chuck it around. If you can throw it considerably farther with a correct flight pattern you are probably okay. I can throw all my fairway and distance drivers over 300 feet on a good throw now. I struggle throwing light slow discs because I can't get the right hyzer angle to get them to flip up and they all crash out hard at less than 200 feet.

 

[AlphaFoxFL]

Well, RoDeO... I might try out one of my friends' higher speed discs at some point, but settling for a 150ft mid throw is something I don't want to do. I've been out tirelessly trying to fix my technique so I can get the most out of the discs I have, because I want to be able to throw any disc at its potential rather than just the long ones. I want to get a good base established so that I know how to manipulate any disc put into my hand with time. I don't just want a good "driver throw," I want a throw that works no matter what disc I am using. I'm hopefully going to film myself soon so I can have it critiqued, because this is killing me right now...

 

[RoDeO]

Well, RoDeO... I might try out one of my friends' higher speed discs at some point, but settling for a 150ft mid throw is something I don't want to do. I've been out tirelessly trying to fix my technique so I can get the most out of the discs I have, because I want to be able to throw any disc at its potential rather than just the long ones. I want to get a good base established so that I know how to manipulate any disc put into my hand with time. I don't just want a good "driver throw," I want a throw that works no matter what disc I am using. I'm hopefully going to film myself soon so I can have it critiqued, because this is killing me right now...

I hear ya. I'm kind of in the same boat. I found that as my form got better and my grip changed that I was imparting far more spin on the disc than I was when I first started. This caused the understable discs I had to literally become unthrowable without hyzer flipping them and having them crash out. I was baffled for a few days wondering what was up. Then I threw my high speed discs and found that my distance was drastically increased. I have since gone back to learning how to throw my slower discs on a hyzer angle so they will fly right. Just for kicks, throw a more stable high speed disc and see what happens. If you get a more correct flight out of it you know the slow discs will only work with varying degrees of hyzer angle. My leopard disc I have to angle it almost halfway dipped into the ground to get it to fly straight now.

 

[AlphaFoxFL]

Thankfully, I just went out and filmed me throwing around with my Cobra, so I'm about to put them together and submit them for critiquing. I don't know what I expected to look like, and I don't look horrific, but I can't wait to finally start getting straightened-up...

 

[armiller]

Great video there, Armiller...! I have been trying to focus more on a balanced and "smooth" throw, have been going straighter, but also not as far. I noticed on his "backswing" there, he had his disc tilted up, then brought it to level as he threw it, is that something to take note of, or is that just something he himself got used to...? Thanks for the response...!

And to answer your question, Wolf, I throw right-handed backhands.

Thank you both as well...!

I think different throwers do some different things in reachback, etc. There are many aspects of a throw that are kind of cosmetic, or stand out because of how they look, but are far from essential. Essentially, a disc golf throw (backhand in particular) is channeling energy from the ground into the disc. It goes from your feet, up through hips, then more rapidly through core/spine, and then shoulders, arm, wrist, disc.

I think I started a bit more advanced than you (based on distance, at least), because I had thrown frisbees and played ultimate for quite some time. But I still noticed myself doing weird things to try to make my throw look like Will Schusterick, or Paul, or Nate Doss, or whoever. In the end, remember that those primary steps are more important. A little tilt of the disc here or there may help you get the rest of your form right, but it may also become more of a distraction. But guys like Barry are great examples of a smooth transfer of energy to the disc. MJ is another. But in general, the pros make it look fairly easy to throw really far, and it's not by being "herky jerky," as referred to by Barry.

I encourage everyone to film their throw and review the video. One added benefit is that you can post videos on here (in the Technique forum), but the most important thing is to watch your throw. You often "feel" like you or your throw are doing something, only to find out that you're doing something completely different on video review.

By the way, here's another nice video that I think is manageable for beginners and has some good advice.

 

[zontar]

don't give up on that Cobra! great versatile disc.

 

[Casey 1988]

Just a disclaimer, I am very new to the sport and am still trying to understand everything in the game, so forgive me if what this post contains just sounds stupid, but I want to get better so I might as well ask a forum.

I've played a few rounds recently and noticed a trend that is killing my score: I can't achieve any considerable distance on throws. Because of this, when others are at the hole in 1-2 throws, I'm aiming to putt in the amount it takes for par (typically 3). This makes birdies impossible, pars extremely difficult, and bogeys very common.

Since I am new, I only have four discs in my bag:
> Innova DX Leopard [6|5|-2|1]
> Innova DX Cobra [4|5|-2|2]
> Innova DX Shark [4|4|0|2]
> Innova DX Aviar [3|2|0|1]

I constantly find that my only "good" shot is a decently wide anheizer, typically landing right ahead of me and reaching 150-160ft. If I try to throw a reasonably straight shot, the distance goes down to only about 100-125ft. I may be a beginner, but I know that these are terrible numbers.

I have been searching online and asking around, as I'm trying to find the root of this problem. At first I thought it was my technique, then my release angle, disc angle (heizers/stable/anheizers), and everything in-between, yet nothing so far has worked.

My constant researching and endless hours of throwing with no sign of a good result stopped when I heard something that caught me off-guard. A "disc golf basics instructional" video made a statement that "If you're throwing too hard for a disc (on a RHBH), it will fade to the right rather than to the left."

This threw me for a spin. As a beginner, I've heard tons of times that "You shouldn't go for higher speed discs, as you won't have the strength for them," and I haven't even dared touch anything beyond my speed-6 Leopard. When I was just starting out and had crappy, weak technique, my shots were flying more straight (but not as far) even with more effort, typically getting some nice S-curve. But now that I have better technique with more arm extension and rip, suddenly all my shots are fading right despite all efforts to compensate.

Another thing I have heard in my studies is that you "shouldn't upgrade until you can throw your mids 300ft and your putters 250ft." But, if the speed thing is true, how am I supposed to get a 300ft mid throw when even with a good mix between power and curve, I can get at max 175ft...?

I'm just lost, and this is something I really want to fix before I get back out for 9- or 18-holes... Any criticism, advice, help, pointers, anything, would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you in-advance...!

My first Question is, can you with the Cobra get it to do the micro S shape flight to the disc? The other thing is grip and then it sounds like you are just powering the disc without regard to form (or angle of the disc?).

 

[oldmandiscer]

Post the video here and get feedback. Another option would be to find a local pro that can give you direct one on one feedback during a lesson. Learning correctly early on will help you progress much much faster, rather then unlearning bad habits.

I can almost guarantee you are strong arming it, that is throwing it mostly with your shoulder/arm. Which is a major no no. The arm really should stay relatively quiet or passive during the throw. The power comes from the ground up. Learning that can be difficult and it's too much for me to explain in a small post but remember, don't use your arm to throw, use you legs hips/core.

 

[Casey 1988]

don't give up on that Cobra! great versatile disc.

I will agree, my Uncle who did not play last few years I went to see him due to arm injury he was recovering from Uses a few Cobra discs in DX Cycle. I say that mold is more Useful then the DX Stingray as the DX Stingray is harder to use in the wind.

 

[SaROCaM]

When I injured my right arm from overuse as a beginner I taught myself to throw left. After a few weeks I changed my grip. I found that I could no longer throw my light leopard at all- just turned over into a roller and couldn't break the 200 foot mark. So, I got out my fastest discs and threw them (speed 9-11) and was instantly rewarded with distance as they no longer turned over. Do yourself a favor and don't listen to all that mumbo jumbo about never throwing a driver until you can throw a midrange 300 feet. Go buy yourself at least one distance driver with a decent weight (170 g) and Chuck it around. If you can throw it considerably farther with a correct flight pattern you are probably okay. I can throw all my fairway and distance drivers over 300 feet on a good throw now. I struggle throwing light slow discs because I can't get the right hyzer angle to get them to flip up and they all crash out hard at less than 200 feet.

Well, RoDeO... I might try out one of my friends' higher speed discs at some point, but settling for a 150ft mid throw is something I don't want to do. I've been out tirelessly trying to fix my technique so I can get the most out of the discs I have, because I want to be able to throw any disc at its potential rather than just the long ones. I want to get a good base established so that I know how to manipulate any disc put into my hand with time. I don't just want a good "driver throw," I want a throw that works no matter what disc I am using. I'm hopefully going to film myself soon so I can have it critiqued, because this is killing me right now...

There are two pathways here (and they don't have to be mutually exclusive)

1) Using discs that let you throw farther/get birdie looks
2) Using discs that show your true progress

For the first, getting faster speed discs eliminates some form flaws because the discs are more stable due to their speed/power requirement. You can crash over the top and the stability of the disc bails you out. This results in magical instant distance, but masks form flaws and ingrains them. A healthy adult without physical limitations can strongarm a disc 300+ feet, so reaching that distance doesn't mean your form is good. It does mean, however, that you can reach that distance, so any hole on the course is within range. So you can have better results but flawed form. This may be fine if you just play holes less than 300 or so feet, but what happens when there is a 450' par 3 hole? Now you have held yourself back from getting birdie there because you wanted a shortcut to birdie a 300' hole. So it is a tradeoff: time spent getting birdies on shorter holes vs. time spent building a foundation to get birdies on longer holes. Not to mention opening up increased disc selection (if you can reach longer distances throwing slower discs, you have the option to get more control, less skip, etc. instead of being forced to throw drivers.) So yes, you can choose a disc to get you to 300 feet quite easily, and if that is all you want and makes you happy enough, then goal achieved. Not everyone aspires to/finds enjoyment in greater mastery, they just want to play and have fun. Nothing wrong with that.

For the second, if you can learn how to throw those "beginner" discs, then your foundation will likely be solid. All you will have to adjust is nose angle for faster discs (slower discs generally aren't as nose angle sensitive.) But adjusting the nose angle is easier than adjusting form from the ground up; it can be as simple as a different grip or wrist position. Look at good throwers; they can throw lightweight, understable discs. They can throw minis. It is because they understand how to throw discs and have excellent form. Just watch footage of the Japan Open, where discs have to be 150 class, to see lightweight discs in action. Or watch the "starter pack challenge" where you can see Eagle throwing a 140g DX Aviar 400 feet! Why can these pros with 600 feet of power throw these lightweight discs? Because they have elite form and understanding of how to throw a disc.

The whole "don't throw X until you can throw Y feet" is rooted in some truth. Maybe the exact number isn't set in stone, but the idea is solid. If you want to truly master throwing discs, then build your solid foundation from the beginning. If you just want to have fun chucking plastic, then do what makes you happy. I did say that they didn't have to be mutually exclusive: you can throw certain discs on the course to help your scores, but when working on form or evaluating progress, some discs are better than others. Personally, I would rather take a couple steps backwards in order to make greater progress rather than taking a few quick steps forward and getting stuck in place.

 

[mojorooks]

High speed discs are fun practicing in a field but on a course its quite different. Ive been using a Starfire 10, 5, 0, 3 as my main driver. Its good if I need pure distance. I can get it about 300 ft. But o a tighter course, switching to my Undertaker 9, 4,-1, 2 only goes 250 but it stays straighter and less tendency to stray off into the bushes.

Discing down saves a lot of time looking for discs. Ive been playing for 2 years and find it to be very sound advice. Im starting to get my mids out quite far and accurate due to such advice. And Ive been getting my putters out to the same distance my mids used to go to.

 

[Casey 1988]

High speed discs are fun practicing in a field but on a course its quite different. Ive been using a Starfire 10, 5, 0, 3 as my main driver. Its good if I need pure distance. I can get it about 300 ft. But o a tighter course, switching to my Undertaker 9, 4,-1, 2 only goes 250 but it stays straighter and less tendency to stray off into the bushes.

Discing down saves a lot of time looking for discs. Ive been playing for 2 years and find it to be very sound advice. Im starting to get my mids out quite far and accurate due to such advice. And Ive been getting my putters out to the same distance my mids used to go to.

I think the same, why for years when 11 speed and later in 2007 12 speed discs were introduced I stuck with a Valkyrie until I quit in 2009 to mid-late 2015 mostly only playing at a new course on vacation. Only getting a 12 speed Champion Destroyer in 2014 and early 2015, the mold was not what I wanted in Star, the mold was all over the place and I wanted the Champion due to less players using the mold. I have since gotten the Archon as a faster Valkyrie disc I can really mash on in star as long as the mold has dome to it.

 

[RoDeO]

It took me several rounds at the field throwing my fastest discs as hard as I could to get to a new level with distance with all my discs. I think it holds true throwing any kind of disc if you don't have the right form it won't go far. Throwing faster discs helped me to adjust to the needed velocity at release to throw them right. I worked on getting that snap later and quicker. When I went back to the slower discs they turned into rollers and so now I'm learning to hyzer flip them. I flat out can't throw putters far because they feel awkward in my hand and so I use a traditional frisbee fan grip with pointer finger on the rim. I can still throw it around 200 feet but I'm not going to be throwing discs like that generally. With my 5-6 speed midrange discs it's hard to throw them far as I haven't quite mastered the release angle. Im really most comfortable with My speed 7 River as my main driver for shots up to about 275 feet. Anything around 300 and over I use the distance drivers because they go laser straight and are easy to control down long narrow fairways. I'm a big fan for trying to throw hard and using higher speed discs to push you to increase snap and velocity.