Spit-outs. Flaw, or part of the game?

[GulfCoastGolfer]

The object is to put the disc in the bottom of the basket, not to hit the chains with the disc.

 

[Technohic]

I respectfully disagree. I am a competitive disc golfer. I live to play tournaments and want to be the best. However, I'm on the "it's part of the game" side.
Just this year, I was in a playoff for 1st place in Adv at a C-tier. My competitor banged a sweet 50-footer for bird after I parked the hole. I then proceed to tap out my 20' putt for bird to move on, but instead it blew through the back of the basket and I lost the playoff.
As upset as I was, it wasn't at the basket. It was at myself for putting too hard and not just landing the putt in the basket. I relied too much on the chains to catch the disc, and not enough on myself to land it in the basket.
Having said that, just as others have already said, there's a lot that lies in the hands of which baskets you putt on most often. My home course has awful, old Mach-II baskets that have gaps so big in the chains you can hit solid pole w/o touching a chain. Needless to say, there are a LOT of spit-outs and blow-throughs. Having learned the game on this course, my putts are as soft as they need to be to get to the basket. This is how I learned. It's sad to see people play this course for the first time and scratch their heads at how many "perfect putts" don't stick. If they didn't throw lasers, they would.
One other point. There's a reason you see a lot of pros putt nose-down when they are in gimme-range. A nose-down putt will hit the pole, then jump down into the basket. This greatly reduces bounce-outs and blow-throughs.

I feel like this is a different way of saying what I was trying to get across earlier and I agree. Putting style can reduce the risk, but you lead yourself to other risks like bounce outs; but that's part of the game to me.

 

[MNcyclone]

I tried to break it down for you...If you used high speed cameras and recorded putting footage you would see that the disc does different things every time it hits the chains in a very random way. This is because whatever angle you are looking at the basket from, you are at a unique angle to the chain configuration. Ideally you would probably want to be square so that your disc hit the two outside chains first in a symmetrical way with the edge of your putter and then pin the inside chain against the pole with just enough force to have it stick. Or maybe you want to be just off-center so the spin of your disc takes it into position. There is some perfect way in this equation, but you don't get to choose the angle of the chain configuration that you putt at.

So putting the same every time is impossible because you do not have the same look nor any way to measure exactly how to hit the chains ideally in your 30 seconds to avoid the spit.

I feel like I'm arguing for evolution with creationists...And with that I'm out. Not because I wouldn't like to continue, but because doubles starts in 45 minutes!

That isn't random, you stated exactly what the disc behavior is determined by. If you know why it did it it wasn't random now was it?

 

[Nuke]

Now, I didn't read every post in here, admittedly, but I read a lot of them. The things that get to me are the analogies to other sports and then stories about spit outs because you putted too hard etc etc.

Other sport analogies - Flawed immediately because all of the ones I read are based on standards. Talks about putts in ball golf lipping out or being putt too hard. That's not what we are talking about as a 'spit-out'. The proper analogy would be a putt in ball golf that goes in, bounces off the bottom of the cup and bounces out, simply because of the hole being the wrong depth or the material the hole is made out of being too bouncey, etc. All ball golf holes are the same size and made out of the same types of materials, the ball doesn't bounce back out, it can't. That's the goal of disc golf, or it should be. Set number of chains, set basket depth, etc. Strive to find the best design and standardize it. I played in the CAC this year and at kilborne we played some of the skillborne baskets. They had baskets that were half as shallow as the other baskets on the course, HALF! That shouldn't happen. Someone mentioned a football is built to be erratic so you shouldn't let it bounce. Exactly, you know what not to do, and if you do it, you get penalized. The topic of this thread is doing what you are supposed to do and getting penalized. It's like if you catch the football and it deflates you get penalized. It's been said many times about many sports, you shouldn't get penalized for good things, shots in this case.

How's it hard to standardize it? I know there are certain regulations, but it seems as if they aren't strictly enforced or they don't cover enough aspects. How hard is it to require like 3 sets of chains and a padded pole? I'm not saying this is perfect but it would seem to reduce spit outs dramatically, granted I spent like 30 seconds thinking about it. Get the pros together, come up with ideas and test them out. Padded poles, chains that slide on the top of the basket instead of having a single connection point, number of chains, chain tension, etc. It seems like they could push for the best and standardize it. Not to make it easier to stick, but make it harder to spit out on good putts, that's the tricky part.

 

[chris717]

All this time we're arguing, Mr. Drama is just sitting back and watching the craziness he created lol.
Politics nobody is ever right! Just agree to disagree people, Go play some disc golf today and honestly tell us how many spit-out's u had?

I really don't care what the so called pro's have to say honestly, they are the 1% of the community.
Whoever intentionally misses a putt, In a tourney because their opponent missed a so called Spit-out AkA "Bad Putt" is an idiot!

If a quarterback throws a perfect spiral" Throw" to the receiver and he misses it. Should he tell the NFL he want's robot's instead that will never miss the catch?

I don't know anymore this thread is going to make me pack some Yummy Skywalker let the spit-out be with you

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

Holy Crap!! 17 pages in 4 hrs. i couldnt even find my first post

 

[jongoff09]

Holy Crap!! 17 pages in 4 hrs. i couldnt even find my first post

I only see 9 pages

 

[The Hammer]

Holy Crap!! 17 pages in 4 hrs. i couldnt even find my first post

I think I struck a nerve.

 

[chris717]

I think I struck a nerve.

We started it:hfive:

 

[gcr_russell]

Everyone who is justifying spit-outs need to see this one perspective.

Do target manufacturers build baskets with the intention of their baskets having certain types of spit-outs? If the answer is no then it stands to reason that an improvement that minimizes spit-outs is really a good thing and is at the heart of what all basket manufacturers are attempting in the first place. It is also the reason why all baskets are not identical to the first basket, as they felt things like spit-outs could reasonably be reduced by better design. Is there a reason that their attempt to improve baskets needs to have stopped at a certain point? It stands to reason that their quest to improve baskets can continue, and the reason people in the industry have set forth for that improvement is because they (the professionals in DG technology not just the players) recognize progress can continue to be made for Positive reasons.

 

[wkelly42]

Blow-throughs and bounce-outs are part of the game of disc golf.

Lip-outs are part of the game of golf. And basketball, for that matter.

There is an element of luck in the game. Equipment should be designed to minimize that, but our technique should also be geared toward minimizing that risk.

I'd probably feel differently if I'd had a putt bounce out that would have won me a tournament (and a decent paycheck). But what I hear the pros saying is "My technique is perfect and my execution is also consistently perfect. If a putt blows through or bounces out, it has to be the equipment, not me." And I'm sorry, but I don't buy it for a second. As good as they are, the pros aren't perfect.

 

[Triflusal]

All this time we're arguing, Mr. Drama is just sitting back and watching the craziness he created lol.
Politics nobody is ever right! Just agree to disagree people, Go play some disc golf today and honestly tell us how many spit-out's u had?

I really don't care what the so called pro's have to say honestly, they are the 1% of the community.
Whoever intentionally misses a putt, In a tourney because their opponent missed a so called Spit-out AkA "Bad Putt" is an idiot!

If a quarterback throws a perfect spiral" Throw" to the receiver and he misses it. Should he tell the NFL he want's robot's instead that will never miss the catch?

I don't know anymore this thread is going to make me pack some Yummy Skywalker let the spit-out be with you

I respect your opinion but that is an awful awful analogy

 

[GulfCoastGolfer]

Everyone who is justifying spit-outs need to see this one perspective.

Do target manufacturers build baskets with the intention of their baskets having certain types of spit-outs? If the answer is no then it stands to reason that an improvement that minimizes spit-outs is really a good thing and is at the heart of what all basket manufacturers are attempting in the first place. It is also the reason why all baskets are not identical to the first basket, as they felt things like spit-outs could reasonably be reduced by better design. Is there a reason that their attempt to improve baskets needs to have stopped at a certain point? It stands to reason that their quest to improve baskets can continue, and the reason people in the industry have set forth for that improvement is because they (the professionals in DG technology not just the players) recognize progress can continue to be made for Positive reasons.

I am not trolling. I repeat, I am not trolling. "The professionals in DG technology" are in it for profit. They are not in it to help Feldburg, Nikko nor Discspeed be able to play a round of golf without popping a blood vessel because they missed a putt.

 

[gcr_russell]

I am not trolling. I repeat, I am not trolling. "The professionals in DG technology" are in it for profit. They are not in it to help Feldburg, Nikko nor Discspeed be able to play a round of golf without popping a blood vessel because they missed a putt.

They're also in it for the future of the sport, which will benefit them more than anyone else. If they keep attempting better things in basket design they're doing it to further the sport, and I agree with their reasoning behind it, therefore minimizing spit-outs is a positive. Players can minimize spit-outs, and manufacturers can simultaneously work towards that same end.

 

[chris717]

I respect your opinion but that is an awful awful analogy

I know it was the plant talking.... I'm back:thmbup:
It was meant to be a joke, just reading all these post's is making me go banana's.

Just want to say, there is no such thing as a "Perfect Putt":doh:

 

[Longliveguitar]

They're also in it for the future of the sport, which will benefit them more than anyone else. If they keep attempting better things in basket design they're doing it to further the sport, and I agree with their reasoning behind it, therefore minimizing spit-outs is a positive. Players can minimize spit-outs, and manufacturers can simultaneously work towards that same end.

Great point

 

[CwAlbino]

LOL, I feel sorry for discspeed. The majority of the guys he is arguing with are trolls, or can't even put an analogy together correctly.

The basket is analogous to the hole, the chains are to the green.

I was going to fix this for you, but Nuke did it for me. On top of what is bolded below, green speed would be analogous to wind speed when putting.

Now, I didn't read every post in here, admittedly, but I read a lot of them. The things that get to me are the analogies to other sports and then stories about spit outs because you putted too hard etc etc.

Other sport analogies - Flawed immediately because all of the ones I read are based on standards. Talks about putts in ball golf lipping out or being putt too hard. That's not what we are talking about as a 'spit-out'. The proper analogy would be a putt in ball golf that goes in, bounces off the bottom of the cup and bounces out, simply because of the hole being the wrong depth or the material the hole is made out of being too bouncey, etc. All ball golf holes are the same size and made out of the same types of materials, the ball doesn't bounce back out, it can't. That's the goal of disc golf, or it should be. Set number of chains, set basket depth, etc. Strive to find the best design and standardize it. I played in the CAC this year and at kilborne we played some of the skillborne baskets. They had baskets that were half as shallow as the other baskets on the course, HALF! That shouldn't happen. Someone mentioned a football is built to be erratic so you shouldn't let it bounce. Exactly, you know what not to do, and if you do it, you get penalized. The topic of this thread is doing what you are supposed to do and getting penalized. It's like if you catch the football and it deflates you get penalized. It's been said many times about many sports, you shouldn't get penalized for good things, shots in this case.

The flawed basket designs can attribute to:

-Off center pole, straight back toward the putter (goes through the chains, hits pole dead center, flex of the rubber/plastic ejects the disc straight back through the already moving chains, over the basket and onto the ground

-Through the chains, the angle of the putter or how the disc catches the links turns the disc slightly so when it contacts the center pole, it deflects it left slightly. The cylindrical design of the chains makes the disc "roll" around them and eventually break through the back side chains and over the edge of the basket

-The disc comes in low, over the edge of the basket at a downward angle. The disc either hits where the basket meets the pole, or where the cuff of the basket meets the pole. Either way it meets a 90 degree angle of metal to metal, Just like hitting straight on to something, it comes right back out the way it came.

-A floppy disc can go into the "target" by going through the cage. Generally this is from things like blowflies, but can be done with harder discs. If they don't make it through, they are wedgies. The same can be done to go out of the basket. A putt going into the basket and missing chains completely has the chance to exit the target through the basket.

 

[garublador]

These threads always do lead the the most hilariously bad analogies. It's the only good thing about them.

Now, I didn't read every post in here, admittedly, but I read a lot of them. The things that get to me are the analogies to other sports and then stories about spit outs because you putted too hard etc etc.

Other sport analogies - Flawed immediately because all of the ones I read are based on standards. Talks about putts in ball golf lipping out or being putt too hard. That's not what we are talking about as a 'spit-out'. The proper analogy would be a putt in ball golf that goes in, bounces off the bottom of the cup and bounces out, simply because of the hole being the wrong depth or the material the hole is made out of being too bouncey, etc. All ball golf holes are the same size and made out of the same types of materials, the ball doesn't bounce back out, it can't. That's the goal of disc golf, or it should be. Set number of chains, set basket depth, etc. Strive to find the best design and standardize it. I played in the CAC this year and at kilborne we played some of the skillborne baskets. They had baskets that were half as shallow as the other baskets on the course, HALF! That shouldn't happen. Someone mentioned a football is built to be erratic so you shouldn't let it bounce. Exactly, you know what not to do, and if you do it, you get penalized. The topic of this thread is doing what you are supposed to do and getting penalized. It's like if you catch the football and it deflates you get penalized. It's been said many times about many sports, you shouldn't get penalized for good things, shots in this case.

How's it hard to standardize it? I know there are certain regulations, but it seems as if they aren't strictly enforced or they don't cover enough aspects. How hard is it to require like 3 sets of chains and a padded pole? I'm not saying this is perfect but it would seem to reduce spit outs dramatically, granted I spent like 30 seconds thinking about it. Get the pros together, come up with ideas and test them out. Padded poles, chains that slide on the top of the basket instead of having a single connection point, number of chains, chain tension, etc. It seems like they could push for the best and standardize it. Not to make it easier to stick, but make it harder to spit out on good putts, that's the tricky part.

This is a great post that will be both ignored and misunderstood. The only thing I have to emphasize is that it's not only standardization that we need. The rejection of good putts also has to be minimized. Basketball hoops and golf holes do not reject good putts/shots. Disc golf baskets do.

 

[chris717]

Basketball hoops and golf holes do not reject good putts/shots. Disc golf baskets do.

That is a joke right?:|

 

[gcr_russell]

Oops