Disc Golf Contracts (Green Mountain drift)

[jenb]

This is where you lose me. They sure as hell will refer to Kona's contract as a means of negotiating they're own deal. Especially if Dynamic is the one making the offer. No way a player with more recent success doesn't use that as leverage as they should. Also this is exactly how the big contracts work in all pro sports. When a QB signs a max deal that is what all other QB's use as a basis for their deal. Same in all sports. Its domino's.

Why would they refer to that contract? As in " you should pay me as much as Kona cause that turned out so well!"

 

[Jolt]

Both Paul ans Kristin has been open about their contracts. . but i have never heard anything about a "worlds bonus" . .wonder what that title is worth in $$$ at the end?

To have a Worlds title to their brand must be worth alot for Lat64. . but what did Kristin get i wonder

 

[dmoore1998]

Why would they refer to that contract? As in " you should pay me as much as Kona cause that turned out so well!"

Of course they would. "Kona makes $X, I'm better than Kona, I need to make $X+". That's precisely how deals get done, that's what makes "bad contracts" so dangerous. It works particularly well if you're negotiating with DD...because the only way for DD to dispute what you're saying is to admit how dumb their move was with Kona.

You do everything you can to make Kona's deal sound like a standard deal which isn't hard because DD isn't going to want to say they were dumb to do it (I'm not saying they were dumb to do it, but they can't talk down her deal all that well without sounding like they made a big mistake). If KT's deal gets brought up you talk about it like it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that DD got with her for such a small sum.

Beyond that, athletes are probably more likely to take a deal with someone else than to take a deal with DD where they make less than someone they're clearly better than. So if you're DD, you're now paying the "Kona tax" for everyone else's deals to keep future endorsements happy.

 

[Countchunkula]

Thanks to Teemkey for pointing this out on page 1:

Kona Panis has signed a four-year, $500,000 commitment with Dynamic Discs in one of the largest announced FPO contracts in disc golf history.

The contract includes multiple tour series discs, a signature disc to launch next year, a signature bag and an incentive structure tied to tournament finishes and milestones.

I don't think any of us can answer this based on actual knowledge of the contract details, but I get the impression that $500k is the max compensation if she hits all of the incentives. Her actual 2022 compensation from DD could be way less than $125k. I doubt she's earned too many incentives due to tourney finishes so far.

If a good part of her pay is tied to disc sales (and her discs are actually selling), then I doubt DD feels too bad about signing that check.

tldr - We're all talking about the max value as if she's actually getting paid that. Doubt that's the case.

 

[DatRedDude]

Of course they would. "Kona makes $X, I'm better than Kona, I need to make $X+". That's precisely how deals get done, that's what makes "bad contracts" so dangerous. It works particularly well if you're negotiating with DD...because the only way for DD to dispute what you're saying is to admit how dumb their move was with Kona.

You do everything you can to make Kona's deal sound like a standard deal which isn't hard because DD isn't going to want to say they were dumb to do it (I'm not saying they were dumb to do it, but they can't talk down her deal all that well without sounding like they made a big mistake). If KT's deal gets brought up you talk about it like it's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity that DD got with her for such a small sum.

Beyond that, athletes are probably more likely to take a deal with someone else than to take a deal with DD where they make less than someone they're clearly better than. So if you're DD, you're now paying the "Kona tax" for everyone else's deals to keep future endorsements happy.

exactly, i know these guys don't have agents but this is exactly what they do, compare contracts to get equal or greater pay for their counterparts.

If you don't think that X quarterback isn't looking at Y quarterbacks contract and using it as leverage then you aren't paying attn.

Kona Tax is exactly what they will be paying going forward.

 

[DatRedDude]

Why would they refer to that contract? As in " you should pay me as much as Kona cause that turned out so well!"

As a player, if i was better than Kona statistically and they wanted to pay me less then i go elsewhere. Doesn't matter how that worked out for them, they Pidgeon holed themselves with that deal.

 

[Three Putt]

As a player, if i was better than Kona statistically and they wanted to pay me less then i go elsewhere. Doesn't matter how that worked out for them, they Pidgeon holed themselves with that deal.

It's kinda a year-to-year thing, though. Right? I mean when she got that contract she was coming off a year where she had a DGPT win at Waco, and second place finishes at Maple Hill and Throw Pink. She was third in NT Tour points. There was a whole bunch more upside to her resume when they gave her the contract. So being statistically better than her in 2022 is kind irrelevant; you would need to be statistically better than 2021 Kona Panis. That's a higher bar.

 

[Rastnav]

It's kinda a year-to-year thing, though. Right? I mean when she got that contract she was coming off a year where she had a DGPT win at Waco, and second place finishes at Maple Hill and Throw Pink. She was third in NT Tour points. There was a whole bunch more upside to her resume when they gave her the contract. So being statistically better than her in 2022 is kind irrelevant; you would need to be statistically better than 2021 Kona Panis. That's a higher bar.

Not only that, but you'd have to have those finishes and have an obvious flaw that, probability wise, is "easy" to fix. Kona didn't putt well last season and still generated all of those finishes.

If you putt great from C2 and in, but are 4'11" and throw 300' max, you have a pretty hard ceiling. You almost certainly aren't going to improve your max distance to 500'. But improving your C1 putting percentage is something that's a good deal more likely.

 

[jenb]

This is where you lose me. They sure as hell will refer to Kona's contract as a means of negotiating they're own deal. Especially if Dynamic is the one making the offer. No way a player with more recent success doesn't use that as leverage as they should. Also this is exactly how the big contracts work in all pro sports. When a QB signs a max deal that is what all other QB's use as a basis for their deal. Same in all sports. Its domino's.

As a player, if i was better than Kona statistically and they wanted to pay me less then i go elsewhere. Doesn't matter how that worked out for them, they Pidgeon holed themselves with that deal.

Do you mean better stats when she was signed or better stats now?

 

[foxdawg10]

It's kinda a year-to-year thing, though. Right? I mean when she got that contract she was coming off a year where she had a DGPT win at Waco, and second place finishes at Maple Hill and Throw Pink. She was third in NT Tour points. There was a whole bunch more upside to her resume when they gave her the contract. So being statistically better than her in 2022 is kind irrelevant; you would need to be statistically better than 2021 Kona Panis. That's a higher bar.

True, if someone is negotiating a contract this year in 2022.

If DD decides to extend the contract into 2023 despite her performance in 2022, then the comparison to her 2022 performance is back on the table.

 

[Three Putt]

True, if someone is negotiating a contract this year in 2022.

If DD decides to extend the contract into 2023 despite her performance in 2022, then the comparison to her 2022 performance is back on the table.

I obviously have no details and don't really know, but I thought it was a multi-year deal. I wanna say four years but don't really want to look it up. Anyway, I don't think they have the option of just dropping her after this year without negotiating some sort of buy out.

 

[foxdawg10]

I obviously have no details and don't really know, but I thought it was a multi-year deal. I wanna say four years but don't really want to look it up. Anyway, I don't think they have the option of just dropping her after this year without negotiating some sort of buy out.

I misunderstood. My bad. I thought when you said it was a year to year thing in the original post I responded to that it indicated there was an option in the contract.

Either way I really believe this deal was not good for Kona in the long run. She was up and coming and was coming off a break out year for her. I was really rooting for her and was anxious to see what the future held for her in DG. She was exciting, and I love to see people improve by leaps and bounds like she did last year year.

I looked at her player rating comparisons over time, and the narrative that she isn't playing as well as she has in the past doesn't really hold water. She is really playing the same as she did, but it appears that the competition has caught up and surpassed her, much as it has with Paige and Cat.

Kristin is playing full time, Henna and Evelina are playing more tournies in the states, and people like Holyn Handley and Ohn Scoggins have seemingly come out of the woodwork. I'm not sure what it will take for Kona to rise to the next level, but maybe she is like player such as Ezra and Thomas Gilbert, and now even Calvin, who can bomb, but can't compete at the top level this year.

 

[txmxer]

The past 6 years we've seen players across the board elevate their game to keep up with the overall competition level. Kona is going to have to put in the work in the off season. I hope she is successful and ups her game next year.

 

[foxdawg10]

The past 6 years we've seen players across the board elevate their game to keep up with the overall competition level. Kona is going to have to put in the work in the off season. I hope she is successful and ups her game next year.

What changes do you see that Kona can make to help her elevate her game? What have you seen the other players do to elevate their games?

I'm honestly not sure if she has even made getting better her priority this year. Her thing has been her social media presence and trying to be an influencer.

 

[txmxer]

What changes do you see that Kona can make to help her elevate her game? What have you seen the other players do to elevate their games?

I'm honestly not sure if she has even made getting better her priority this year. Her thing has been her social media presence and trying to be an influencer.

I think she has the potential to improve across the board. I don't know if she will or not.

 

[foxdawg10]

I think she has the potential to improve across the board. I don't know if she will or not.

That doesn't answer the questions really, but I agree with you 100%. That word potential is always a killer though, lol.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

What changes do you see that Kona can make to help her elevate her game?

I'll venture a guess at putting, but...

My honest answer is, "I can't say, because she's not making it onto much post pro coverage. I've hardly seen her place since she's been with DD."

I get the whole social media thing, and maybe I'm overstating the value of post-pro coverage, but I think being on feature and lead cards gives you some pretty good visibility. Comentstors often talk about the discs players are throwing. I'd appreciate that if I were a sponsor.

I've certainly seen a lot more of Evaliina and Henna, and have a better idea what they bag, than I do what Kona bags. :|

 

[txmxer]

That doesn't answer the questions really, but I agree with you 100%. That word potential is always a killer though, lol.

I don't have a specific answer.

She has demonstrated a level of ability on occasion that implies she could be one of the top FPO players. Her ceiling might be top 10 or might be top 20 with the emerging talent.

I mean you've got KT, PP, then Cat as proven current top players. Evalina and Henna seem to have the highest potential to move up several spots.

Missy, Faikus, Kat, King, etc are very solid and Kona could be in that conversation. She was last year.

Lots of promising athletes have floundered for various reasons. It's frequently mental Kona has said that's an issue she's working on.

On the other end of the accomplishment spectrum Paige said in the the MVP interviews that she doesn't really care right now and she's good with it. (Don't take that as an opportunity to debate me, go watch her interview and make of it what you will).

These are athletes and they are people. Everyone has their own demons or challenges.

 

[teemkey]

Let's see what Blomroos and Salinon get in their next contract. Two throwers even better than Panis (arguably), but also Innova players with putting issues.

(PS: did you read the article I linked above?)

Didn't really have to. I'm on Team Dynamic Discs and kinda know details to the entire situation. That's why I take issue with anyone on these threads continuing the narrative that "Kona demanded a contract like Kristin's." Even reading the article it's clear that is not how it went down. That being said, "we'll see" if players for other manufacturers say things like, "Kona Panis got X, so what can you do for me?" We'll see. (sarc). I just doubt that'll happen.

Just to clarify: Are you suggesting The Emporia Gazette misquoted Panis & Rusco in the article?

Quick refresher

Then she heard about Kristin Tattar's multi-year record-breaking $125,000 contract with Latitude 64 — a sister company to Dynamic Discs. Unhappy with how her talks were panning out with her current sponsor, Panis reached out to McCabe.

"I was like, 'Wow, that's big money for women in our sport,'" she said. "I reached out to Eric and I was like, 'I just saw this contract with Kristin, is that something that Dynamic Discs could do for me?' Eric said they could probably do something in that ballpark."

She clearly implied it would take a contract equivalent to Tattar's to tempt her. The offer was made, and she accepted. You might quibble about the word 'demand' but since DD met her ask, it's hard to say.

Dynamic Discs founder and CEO Jeremy Rusco said Panis is exactly the type of player Team Dynamic Discs looks for.

"She's very charismatic on the course and, as a young professional, you can tell that she's got a bright future ahead of herself where we think that she's got the opportunity to win multiple world championships over the coming years," he said.

Rusco definitely was thinking about her future performance. (although I'll grant every FPO player entered in a tournament has the opportunity to win it, I don't think that's what Rusco meant)

If you have insider information you can share, please do so. However, most of us aren't insiders and can only use publicized information form our opinions.

 

[foxdawg10]

I don't have a specific answer.

She has demonstrated a level of ability on occasion that implies she could be one of the top FPO players. Her ceiling might be top 10 or might be top 20 with the emerging talent.

I mean you've got KT, PP, then Cat as proven current top players. Evalina and Henna seem to have the highest potential to move up several spots.

Missy, Faikus, Kat, King, etc are very solid and Kona could be in that conversation. She was last year.

Lots of promising athletes have floundered for various reasons. It's frequently mental Kona has said that's an issue she's working on.

On the other end of the accomplishment spectrum Paige said in the the MVP interviews that she doesn't really care right now and she's good with it. (Don't take that as an opportunity to debate me, go watch her interview and make of it what you will).

These are athletes and they are people. Everyone has their own demons or challenges.

I'm not interested enough to watch Paige's interview since this convo is about Kona, but that is definitely interesting that she said this. It seems like justification more than anything.

There are so many better players doing better things out there right now, I'm not sure Kona warrants all this attention right now. I am more interested in what players like Holyn Handley will do. She has only been on tour for 2 years and has been tearing it up!

It's a good time to be watching disc golf for sure.