2014 United States Disc Golf Championship

[JC17393]

DISClaimer: I don't play PDGA tournaments, so I don't know all of the nuances of how the rules are applied in actual situations. Also, I don't keep track of every rule change.

SO, this is probably a dumb question that most people know the answer to... but since I don't know the answer I will ask anyway...

Scenario:
Final Round, hole 5. Schusterick's 3rd shot, a high hyzer, over the lake doesn't clear, goes in the lake, and is OB. The spotter places a flag on the shore near the basket. (See the SpinTV video at 14:32-14:46.) I can't tell from the camera angle if the path of the disc even crossed over land, but the disc certainly never touched land in bounds.

Will takes his 4nd shot (start at 15:50) 1m from the flag on the inbounds side, near the basket.

My question:
I thought that a disc had to actually touch in bounds to be played from the inbounds side, and if not then it is played from the point where it went out. That would mean that Will would throw from the other side of the lake where the disc went over the OB line, a far longer shot.

Obviously, Will did the right thing, and no one disputed it.

It's just that I personally just don't understand why the rule was applied in this way? What am I missing? All I can guess is that OB line on the basket side has verticality so that if the disc crosses back in bounds in the air then the flag is placed where the disc went back out from IB to OB. I have researched both the PDGA OB rules and the USDGC Caddy book and I still don't see a clear answer that addresses this, so I assume this is something that tournament players all just know.

I would appreciate someone clearing this up for me, so that I will know the correct way to play OB shots.

The disc does not have to physically touch the ground in-bounds to have been considered to have crossed in-bounds. All OB lines have what you (correctly) call verticality.

804.04 Out-of-Bounds
E. The out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane. Where a player's lie is marked from a particular point within one meter of the out-of-bounds line, the one-meter relief may be taken from a point upward or downward along the vertical plane.

All the disc has to do is break the plane. You say you expected that he should have played where the disc "went out". You determine that point by estimating where he broke the plane on the near side, right? Same principle applies no matter how many times the disc goes out/in/out/in in its flight.

 

[Olorin]

Thanks Chuck. I knew there must be a simple explanation. That's what I suspected about verticality, but unless I missed something, the rules are did totally seem clear on this point, but I may have missed something. Now I know how to play a disc that goes over OB, goes back IB, then goes OB again without touching the playing surface.

 

[Olorin]

Thanks to all who took the time to reply. It's very clear now.

Now I see that I got confused by the disc going over the first OB line.
Will's throw crossing the first OB became irrelevant after it crossed back IB. Now I realize that after the disc went back IB, from that point on it was on the similar line as if someone on the side where JohnE threw his 4th shot went OB from that side.

 

[Mocheez]

Not trying to derail the USDGC topic at all, but can anyone describe the super flippy destroyers in more detail? Dome, weight, color, etc? I'm interested in trying to find one for wide open max D shots.

Weren't they throwing into a pretty strong headwind? I would think most Star Destroyers would flip pretty hard into a strong headwind at 500 feet of power.

 

[JTacoma03]

Not trying to derail the USDGC topic at all, but can anyone describe the super flippy destroyers in more detail? Dome, weight, color, etc? I'm interested in trying to find one for wide open max D shots.

Red Echo Star max weight, the softer the flippier with those.

Weren't they throwing into a pretty strong headwind? I would think most Star Destroyers would flip pretty hard into a strong headwind at 500 feet of power.

The wind was L -> R, they will flip but not turn and burn if they're decent destroyers.

 

[Steve West]

Thanks to all who took the time to reply. It's very clear now.

Now I see that I got confused by the disc going over the first OB line.
Will's throw crossing the first OB became irrelevant after it crossed back IB. Now I realize that after the disc went back IB, from that point on it was on the similar line as if someone on the side where JohnE threw his 4th shot went OB from that side.

Here are the pertinent phrases excerpted, with emphasis added:

".. The player may elect to play the next throw from ...a lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds …The out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane."

 

[1978]

Not trying to derail the USDGC topic at all, but can anyone describe the super flippy destroyers in more detail? Dome, weight, color, etc? I'm interested in trying to find one for wide open max D shots.

I know this doesn't answer your question, sorry, couldn't resist the joke.

There are about 20 of them dead center half way across lake Winthrop.

I know they were at least max weight, Red, Ecostar Destroyers

 

[Dave242]

…The out-of-bounds line represents a vertical plane."

So if the out of bounds boundary is curved (as with the shore curving around hole 5's basket), then this doesn't apply? :doh:

To nerds at least, lines and planes are straight

 

[Jay Dub]

So if the out of bounds boundary is curved (as with the shore curving around hole 5's basket), then this doesn't apply? :doh:

To nerds at least, lines and planes are straight

Yes it does and...
No they're not.

 

[ToddL]

Vertical plane projected to the curvature of the OB line, maybe?

 

[BgWvDave]

So if the out of bounds boundary is curved (as with the shore curving around hole 5's basket), then this doesn't apply? :doh:

To nerds at least, lines and planes are straight

Your deep Dave...I like that. Would we have to expand to solid geometry for disc golf?

 

[ToddL]

Vertical plane projected to the curvature of the OB line, maybe?

Spline*

 

[grodney]

To nerds at least, lines and planes are straight

Aren't there curved planes in 3-D space? Three planes, only 1 of which is "straight".

 

[1978]

I prefer trolling to math talk.

 

[grodney]

I don't really know, I'm just asking and I like pictures.

 

[tampabay]

Aren't there curved planes in 3-D space? Three planes, only 1 of which is "straight".

"Riemannian Geometry is the study of curved surfaces. Consider what would happen if instead of working on the Euclidean flat piece of paper, you work on a curved surface, such as a sphere. The study of Riemannian Geometry has a direct connection to our daily existence since we live on a curved surface called planet Earth. "

to answer your question, technically yes.

 

[BgWvDave]

Aren't there curved planes in 3-D space? Three planes, only 1 of which is "straight".

I believe Dave was referencing this point

"In plane geometry, all the shapes exist in a flat plane. A plane can be thought of a flat sheet with no thickness, and which goes on for ever in both directions. It is absolutely flat and infinitely large, which makes it hard to draw. In the figure above, the yellow area is meant to represent a plane. In the figure, it has edges, but actually, a plane goes on for ever in both directions"

 

[mashnut]

It's a curved surface that extends vertically from a two dimensional curve defining the OB line, not a plane if you're going to split hairs on math terminology. That said, thanks to football, most Americans understand the concept of "breaking the plane" and it's a close enough term to the reality that nobody's confused by it.

 

[1978]

I don't really know, I'm just asking and I like pictures.

We finally have something in common. The light (distain for Elon Angry) grows strong in you young Grodney.

 

[BgWvDave]

We finally have something in common. The light (distain for Elon Angry) grows strong in you young Grodney.

Not to encourage more thread drift but if the creek that runs through was casual instead of OB would that make angry a better course? I like many of the holes but the creek is just a bit fluky to me.