2015 PDGA Amateur World Championships

[The Hammer]

Generally the courses were good.

It was obvious that there was no consistent course upkeep group. Some courses were in tip top shape, some you could see were managed by the park departments.

Spinksi's was a great back yard course and fun to play but not appropriate for a world championships.

VRL - Hole 8L was in the middle of 10's fairway, and 18L in 17's fairway. Shorts should have absolutely been played there for safety and speed of play.

Meyers N and S - There were at least 10 baskets that were noticeably leaning badly. Many you could just wiggle back and forth. This blew my mind --> Baskets were numbered incorrectly, MBS #2 was labeled #6 (etc). You can buy vinyl numbers at Home Depot it would have literally taken 1 hour and $8 to make right. Both courses had a TON of cut trees just past baskets and off fairways. There were no drag piles...just throw 3' off the fairway where ever the trees were cut. Many greens had effective putting circles of less than 15'. Past 15' was poison ivy, thorns, and piles of dead fall. There are quite a few tweener holes as evidenced by Steve Wests numbers. 450'-480' open holes. If you could throw long you had that many more birdie chances. Its not a big deal, just too many of them 6-8. We went through stretches of bomb, jump putt layup (because the basket was on a side hill) 3 putt drop in. Star 3's no risk, no reward, no drama.

Oshetemo was a great course, a bit repetitive though, but I would be playing it all the time if I lived in the area.

Timber Ridge was a little long and our round was 5:40 minutes. That was a bit much... but I threw Meteor and Leopards and Judges and had one of the best rounds out there so, you didnt need to mash like people thought you did.

Biggest complaint, the first meyers course you get to in the park. Hole 1's basket was IN TREES, branches were growing into the chains. Here is the Pic.

That basket in the tree is absurd.

 

[bruce_brakel]

As for Spinski's, it definitely had that new course feel. Clearly it was just curved out of a thick forest and or swamp area. I can imagine that as it gets played more that some of the lines will open up to create fairer shots and better/safer sight lines. I agree that numerous tee pads were a little close to dangerous landing areas, but as this course was designed on private property with the apparent intent to have a low volume of players on the course at any given time, with two courses to play, I do not think it would be an issue for any time outside of such a big tournament as we just had.

Spinski's was not just carved out, but a lot of fairways were widened shortly before the tournament. So there were those stubbly areas you get from that. The owner told me he plans on letting it grow back in.

 

[1978]

The lost disc pile from the week was unreal at Spinksi's

 

[bruce_brakel]

The lost disc pile from the week was unreal at Spinksi's

Some of those lost discs looked like they had been lost for several years!

 

[1978]

I survived, no lost discs, practice or playing rounds.

 

[bruce_brakel]

You aren't going to get nine spectacular courses in one reasonably small region. For that reason, I did not have a problem with any of the courses.

There is nothing anyone could do about the rainy spring and summer. Normally the wet courses and wet holes would have been dried out by July. John dug improved the drainages at Spinski's and it still couldn't keep up with the rain. The spotters at Spinski's made up for the mud. Those were mostly Spinski players who took time off from work to volunteer.

The collection of courses I played were far better than the collection of courses I played in 2007 and 2010. A little better than 2008. They were about as good as 2000, and almost as good 2004 and 2012. At some of those Worlds you may have played a better or worse collection of courses than me.

I looked at all of the pools and it seemed like every pool got to play a good group of courses. I've seen Worlds where the women or juniors were stuck on all the lamest courses. I would have been fine with playing any of the course groupings that any 6-round pool played, except that I would have envied the pools that got to play Timber Ridge if I was in a no-TR pool.

Recently carved out holes are always annoying. The changes to MB South were done too soon before Worlds. :doh: The changes to MB North since 2008 were awesome. Three really lame holes were replaced by three good holes. :thmbup:

Spinski Champs was really tough if you went for everything. I threw a lot of Buzzz and Magnet drives, trying to break the holes down to 3s and 4s and stay out of the punishing schule and o.b. But it was tough on everyone.

I could post about what I did have a problem with, but I don't know if I will. I've been posting about it for 20 years. :wall: It has only gotten worse. :thmbdown:

 

[TimSyl]

Hope this doesn't sound defensive. In reference to the new holes on the South course at MB: The park put a new dog park in in early June. Should we have had a 16 hole course? Timing was poor at best, but what could we have done?

As far as "leaning" baskets go...we have issues keeping #15 S straight. Find it hard to believe 10 of them "noticeably leaning badly". Perfectly plumb? Probably not.

With basically two of us doing the majority of the work (parks helped with some mowing and cutting in the new holes), AND having a job, wife, and life I'm sure some debris was probably too close to fairways. Only a couple holes had piles close to the basket, and those were beyond where many people throw.

Could the courses have been better? Absolutely. We are out there mowing, trimming, moving baskets, etc. trying to improve the courses weekly, sometimes daily.

 

[bhadella]

Hope this doesn't sound defensive. In reference to the new holes on the South course at MB: The park put a new dog park in in early June. Should we have had a 16 hole course? Timing was poor at best, but what could we have done?

As far as "leaning" baskets go...we have issues keeping #15 S straight. Find it hard to believe 10 of them "noticeably leaning badly". Perfectly plumb? Probably not.

With basically two of us doing the majority of the work (parks helped with some mowing and cutting in the new holes), AND having a job, wife, and life I'm sure some debris was probably too close to fairways. Only a couple holes had piles close to the basket, and those were beyond where many people throw.

Could the courses have been better? Absolutely. We are out there mowing, trimming, moving baskets, etc. trying to improve the courses weekly, sometimes daily.

Thanks for all of the effort and time into the course! The stretch of 12 thru 17 on the South course was my favorite combo of holes from the week.

5 and 6 are just going to get more muddy/eroded over time. Basket and landing zones in "low lying areas" like the pin on 5 and 6 and landing zone on 6 are not going to get better with time. Any chance you could use the land south of the basket on #15 and the teepad on #16 for a new hole?

 

[1978]

You aren't going to get nine spectacular courses in one reasonably small region. For that reason, I did not have a problem with any of the courses.

There is nothing anyone could do about the rainy spring and summer. Normally the wet courses and wet holes would have been dried out by July. John dug improved the drainages at Spinski's and it still couldn't keep up with the rain. The spotters at Spinski's made up for the mud. Those were mostly Spinski players who took time off from work to volunteer.

The collection of courses I played were far better than the collection of courses I played in 2007 and 2010. A little better than 2008. They were about as good as 2000, and almost as good 2004 and 2012. At some of those Worlds you may have played a better or worse collection of courses than me.

I looked at all of the pools and it seemed like every pool got to play a good group of courses. I've seen Worlds where the women or juniors were stuck on all the lamest courses. I would have been fine with playing any of the course groupings that any 6-round pool played, except that I would have envied the pools that got to play Timber Ridge if I was in a no-TR pool.

Recently carved out holes are always annoying. The changes to MB South were done too soon before Worlds. :doh: The changes to MB North since 2008 were awesome. Three really lame holes were replaced by three good holes. :thmbup:

Spinski Champs was really tough if you went for everything. I threw a lot of Buzzz and Magnet drives, trying to break the holes down to 3s and 4s and stay out of the punishing schule and o.b. But it was tough on everyone.

I could post about what I did have a problem with, but I don't know if I will. I've been posting about it for 20 years. :wall: It has only gotten worse. :thmbdown:

Cards showing up to courses @ 8:45 for 9AM starts or taking 1.5 hours more than all the players took to get between courses?

 

[bhadella]

Cards showing up to courses @ 8:45 for 9AM starts or taking 1.5 hours more than all the players took to get between courses?

People whining about not being able to smoke during the round (especially on backups) was the worst. Seriously, grow up.

 

[TimSyl]

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Quote:


Originally Posted by TimSyl View Post

Hope this doesn't sound defensive. In reference to the new holes on the South course at MB: The park put a new dog park in in early June. Should we have had a 16 hole course? Timing was poor at best, but what could we have done?

As far as "leaning" baskets go...we have issues keeping #15 S straight. Find it hard to believe 10 of them "noticeably leaning badly". Perfectly plumb? Probably not.

With basically two of us doing the majority of the work (parks helped with some mowing and cutting in the new holes), AND having a job, wife, and life I'm sure some debris was probably too close to fairways. Only a couple holes had piles close to the basket, and those were beyond where many people throw.

Could the courses have been better? Absolutely. We are out there mowing, trimming, moving baskets, etc. trying to improve the courses weekly, sometimes daily.

Thanks for all of the effort and time into the course! The stretch of 12 thru 17 on the South course was my favorite combo of holes from the week.

5 and 6 are just going to get more muddy/eroded over time. Basket and landing zones in "low lying areas" like the pin on 5 and 6 and landing zone on 6 are not going to get better with time. Any chance you could use the land south of the basket on #15 and the teepad on #16 for a new hole?

Great minds think alike! We suggested that exact scenario, but were rejected. #5 S would have been fine but a crappy front loader got stuck during the "rainy season" of June and ripped up the fairway/green area. Hole #6 is possibly my least favorite hole on the course, hopefully it will get "broken in" better. We are talking about digging a pond to the right of the current fairway and building up the bowl in the fairway to alleviate the water collection issue. Also planning to build up the area where the basket is now for the same reason.

 

[1978]

Hope this doesn't sound defensive. In reference to the new holes on the South course at MB: The park put a new dog park in in early June. Should we have had a 16 hole course? Timing was poor at best, but what could we have done?

As far as "leaning" baskets go...we have issues keeping #15 S straight. Find it hard to believe 10 of them "noticeably leaning badly". Perfectly plumb? Probably not.

With basically two of us doing the majority of the work (parks helped with some mowing and cutting in the new holes), AND having a job, wife, and life I'm sure some debris was probably too close to fairways. Only a couple holes had piles close to the basket, and those were beyond where many people throw.

Could the courses have been better? Absolutely. We are out there mowing, trimming, moving baskets, etc. trying to improve the courses weekly, sometimes daily.

I understand, I maintain 4 courses in Charlotte, alone and do all the prep for any tournament in Charlotte alone. The comments I made, however, werent just because of a critical eye. There are 10 baskets at least that are bent, broken, leaning or have an old smaller diameter innova pole and a larger diameter basket and pan. (on the MB courses) Players and caddy's discussed what side of the baskets to land on for upshots because of the leans. Comments on the leaning baskets or bent pans (that made them look leaning) were independent of me and common in the groups I played in. Hole 6, IMO was poorly designed, a much better hole would have been a longer hole throwing over the short pad. Of course not all the holes had stuff around them, there were a lot in fields. MBN had lots of dead trees around holes 5-8. MBS had that tree growing into the basket and issues on the 5&6 with the lose basket. Any tree kick on 6 threw you right into 5's green, all conservative plays had you down in that bowl and the trees that were cut were very close to the green, I know i was in them.

All your hard work is commendable, probably even amazing but the issues were the issues regardless of if it was a team of 1 or 1000.

For the Charlotte worlds we built 10 brand new courses in 3 years prior to the event. I understand the hard work, also the administrative BS. There are just a few things like hole 8 in 10's fairway at Vicksburg that were easy fixes, that rubbed a lot of people the wrong way. Overall the worlds and courses was GREAT, you guys put on a great show, but be able to take the constructive criticism and improve, get a work day and clear those greens, stack the downfall in piles, etc.

 

[TimSyl]

Appreciate it and do take it as constructive criticism. Don't know how it is in your area for volunteers, but it is virtually impossible for us. Kalamazoo people seem to think it is "too far" and we don't have many locals. A couple guys came out a couple times to cut trees down, but that was about it.

Many of the downed trees on 5-8 MBN were done by the power company and we didn't have enough bodies/time to get them moved. I suppose our thinking was they were off the fairway.

I'll check out the baskets and see what I can do to get them straighter. I actually didn't notice and I played the South last night (don't ask my score!, although I did 3 #6).

 

[1978]

Lol, my card had 3 putts at a 2, on 6 so what do I know. I'd reference you to the "we are they" thread, if I had the energy to search it. Limited help is a common occurrence everywhere. Although, as the club increases in size work days have more people...its just that someone has to plan one of those, few just go out and fix stuff on their own. Thats the challenging part.

 

[bhadella]

#17 on the North course was the most memorable basket I can remember. I (jokingly) asked my cardmates if they wanted me to lean the basket in their direction prior to putting to make their putts easier. That one doesn't seem to have any concrete holding it in at all.

Keep up the good fight on the MB courses! Thanks again!

 

[bruce_brakel]

gol

Cards showing up to courses @ 8:45 for 9AM starts or taking 1.5 hours more than all the players took to get between courses?

Cards showing up to courses @ 8:45 for 9AM starts: For the most part the tournament is being run by volunteers who are disc golfers. So that explains a lot.

Cards ... taking 1.5 hours more than all the players took to get between courses: This is a more complicated thing. They want to update scores with tournament central before sorting the leaderboard because that is tons easier. But they have eight rounds getting done at about the same time, so TDs are waiting for available volunteers to take their scores. There might be an issue with failing to prioritize the two-round travelling leaderboards over the morning round only leaderboards and non-travelling leaderboards. Most days there were only two or three leaderboards that had to travel, so those two should have gotten top priority.

 

[1978]

gol

Cards showing up to courses @ 8:45 for 9AM starts: For the most part the tournament is being run by volunteers who are disc golfers. So that explains a lot.

Cards ... taking 1.5 hours more than all the players took to get between courses: This is a more complicated thing. They want to update scores with tournament central before sorting the leaderboard because that is tons easier. But they have eight rounds getting done at about the same time, so TDs are waiting for available volunteers to take their scores. There might be an issue with failing to prioritize the two-round travelling leaderboards over the morning round only leaderboards and non-travelling leaderboards. Most days there were only two or three leaderboards that had to travel, so those two should have gotten top priority.

We waited at Meyers Broadway North until 8:40 for the cards. Were given 20 minutes to get to the South course to start. We were told that the cards were stored with the PDGA and that the PDGA official was late in bringing them. All the local course TD's and volunteers were there at 7:45 waiting like the rest of the players.

There is no reason that you can't pack up the cards after the last group leaves them and they are all checked for accuracy. If there is an issue, the BEST place to catch people is at the second course since most pack up and get out so they can get lunch and practice the second course. Cards should be brought to the next course and all re-organization/PDGA updates done at the second course. This should be part of the Standard Operating Procedure, at most it would have delayed the scores by 20 minutes instead of the players by 1.5 hours. We were expected to be there 2 minutes prior to 2PM, yet the card showed up at like 3:00-3:30.

I understand all the excuses, however, if it was made clear that the card to the next course and the card early at the courses was priority you would have less issues. I dont know if that was done. Its ok though, we all got to socialize for an hour before the round and get a little rest. Guess all was not lost.

 

[Cgkdisc]

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