ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
You jinxed him!
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2017 MPO Worlds - Augusta
- Thread starter DinosaurThunder
- Start date
You jinxed him!
Flick Maniac
* Ace Member *
Many familiar pros are sure underachieving at this tourney. Anthon & Koling strike me the most. Nikko too but that seems to have been going on for a while already.
His philosophy is actually opposite that. How he puts it in practice is 1 thing...at our design conference he was preaching that shots near the fairway should all have chances to advance and even thinking about ways to make it more fair when there are trees left in or around the fairways. I would go as far as to say he appeared to favor fairways that didnt have any trees actually in them.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
2nd rd front9 vids are up.
Vonbeezy1
Banned
Just saw that. Dang me!!!! :wall:
Vonbeezy1
Banned
:clap:
bhadella
* Ace Member *
I'm calling the areas of "scattered trees" to be the non-fairway (or first cut of rough). So if you don't pure the gap (hit the fairway), you have a challenged upshot. The "scattered trees" section is not as densely wooded as the "rough" (or second cut of rough), but it's not clear. The "rough" section is either a highly risky shot or a pitch up/out.
Therealgoat
Par Member
Is the complaint about fairness in regards to the size of the lanes, or some of the trees in the middle of the fairway?
Big Jerm / Uli talked quite a bit about the gaps and fairness of the holes in the Round 1 Jomez coverage. What could be a great drive slightly kicks off a tree and you end up 50' in the woods with a tough look just to pitch out. Uli makes this comment when someone attempts to pitch out, gets back into the middle of the fairway, and STILL has a terrible lie / look down the next lane.
IMO - it wasn't a great drive at all if you hit the tree. Sure, all hyzer bombs would be great shots on that course....if the woods didn't exist. Pick a different shot type, disc down, etc. Birdie on a lot of those par 4's takes two exceptional shots for a look at the basket. Not just two good shots, because good shots can land in the fairway and still not leave you with an actual look for your next shot.
There are lanes off the tee. They may be small, or narrow down a certain distance off the tee, but there are lanes, and some of these guys are hitting them.
Trees in the middle. This is another gap-at-a-distance perspective. Assuming you hit your line on Hole #1 and land in the middle of the fairway, you're now looking at a small 7' gap on the left, then 5-7 small trees a few feet apart each, then a 10' gap, a big tree, and another 7' gap before the right side of the fairway. This looks like a wall of trees between you and the basket, but it has several "lanes" to get through.
Pure a drive to the middle, get through the tree-wall, and you might have a look at birdie.
Have a good drive, get good distance, actually in the fairway, but too far on the left or right? No look. You've missed your landing zone and have an awkward stance or reduced options on throws to get through the wall (if you even have a look at it).
I don't necessarily think it's unfair that what looked like a good drive off the tee ends up leaving you with no approach shot. It actually wasn't a good drive. In hindsight, maybe it was too fast a disc with a skip off the terrain because it was wet that morning put you too far left (happens to two people on a hole in Round 1). Is it unfair because the gaps are small, unfair because there are trees in the way on their approach, unfair because the ground was wet that morning and high speed drivers take crazy skips?
I guess what I'm getting at is maybe the shot to give you a look at birdie is something different than what was thrown, not that the course isn't fair. There's a lot of almost great drives. Or maybe it was a bad shot, and they almost got really lucky?
Big Jerm / Uli talked quite a bit about the gaps and fairness of the holes in the Round 1 Jomez coverage. What could be a great drive slightly kicks off a tree and you end up 50' in the woods with a tough look just to pitch out. Uli makes this comment when someone attempts to pitch out, gets back into the middle of the fairway, and STILL has a terrible lie / look down the next lane.
IMO - it wasn't a great drive at all if you hit the tree. Sure, all hyzer bombs would be great shots on that course....if the woods didn't exist. Pick a different shot type, disc down, etc. Birdie on a lot of those par 4's takes two exceptional shots for a look at the basket. Not just two good shots, because good shots can land in the fairway and still not leave you with an actual look for your next shot.
There are lanes off the tee. They may be small, or narrow down a certain distance off the tee, but there are lanes, and some of these guys are hitting them.
Trees in the middle. This is another gap-at-a-distance perspective. Assuming you hit your line on Hole #1 and land in the middle of the fairway, you're now looking at a small 7' gap on the left, then 5-7 small trees a few feet apart each, then a 10' gap, a big tree, and another 7' gap before the right side of the fairway. This looks like a wall of trees between you and the basket, but it has several "lanes" to get through.
Pure a drive to the middle, get through the tree-wall, and you might have a look at birdie.
Have a good drive, get good distance, actually in the fairway, but too far on the left or right? No look. You've missed your landing zone and have an awkward stance or reduced options on throws to get through the wall (if you even have a look at it).
I don't necessarily think it's unfair that what looked like a good drive off the tee ends up leaving you with no approach shot. It actually wasn't a good drive. In hindsight, maybe it was too fast a disc with a skip off the terrain because it was wet that morning put you too far left (happens to two people on a hole in Round 1). Is it unfair because the gaps are small, unfair because there are trees in the way on their approach, unfair because the ground was wet that morning and high speed drivers take crazy skips?
I guess what I'm getting at is maybe the shot to give you a look at birdie is something different than what was thrown, not that the course isn't fair. There's a lot of almost great drives. Or maybe it was a bad shot, and they almost got really lucky?
Badly
Sbdjot
Newbie
^^^^ Great point. WR Jackson for one is a strategist's course to the T. You have to pick your spots and hit them with an extremely small amount of room for error to capitalize. I play there quite regularly and I always ask myself how in the heck can you go low on this course. The answer is you have to be a hell of a lot better player than I am. LOL
He also built that course quite a while ago, and was testing some theories. That stretch of par 3s in the gully on Jackson is about as bad as it gets. OBs and drop offs too close to baskets, he even said to me, an actual quote, "Im embarassed that not one else brought the issues with these holes to my attention before." When I shared my concerns with them...
I think parts of jackson, he was playing with ideas that he later put into more full affect at other courses...but Hauck isnt a tweak guy. He has to move on to the next project. I think he rarely re-visits a course to make adjustments like you would a local course that you see everyday.
I get the same feeling, not on all of the holes but certainly a few. The rough itself doesn't bother me; it's dense but it's consistent. The bare tree trunks that litter some fairways are where I take issue. Virtually identical throws (maybe a few inches apart) can have vastly different results. The punishment isn't proportional to the amount of error in the throw.
Thinking back 2 weeks to BSF, the dense canopies of foliage seem more fair in their treatment of errant shots.
ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
... and MJ seems right back at home in the woods getting birdies on 5 of first 6...
Scratch that... Hasting is lighting it up. MJ scores not in yet. I was off by one row.
Scratch that... Hasting is lighting it up. MJ scores not in yet. I was off by one row.
Could not disagree more. Learning the game in Michigan, wooded courses are the norm. The challenge of placement and shot making is at a premium in this type of environment. I would FAR rather see pros challenged to make every shot imaginable, than some wide open hyzer fest. The course is HARD and the lines are indeed tight, but I am in love with the challenge. Make the shot or take your medicine. With that said, it is the same for all the players. Having played there it is one of the top courses I have played.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Jackson is poke and hope for ams. For the top guys, it's a tough play. They have to make their shots, and if they don't, they pay.
It's already been written, but go listen to Uli and Jerm. They talk plenty about hole structure, width, and what is great about the course. Don't judge it by am standards, judge it by the best in the world.
It's already been written, but go listen to Uli and Jerm. They talk plenty about hole structure, width, and what is great about the course. Don't judge it by am standards, judge it by the best in the world.
ScottyLove
Double Eagle Member
Agree... you don't shoot -12 on a poke and hope course. I've played this one and it is very tough but fair. I love the 3 Turkey Gulch holes and went -3 through that stretch myself. Just had a tough time with the long par 5 holes.
The game would be much more boring if the punishment was always exactly proportional to the error. Sometimes it's a game of inches, and that's ok.
Vonbeezy1
Banned
For those of you advocating for more rounds to crown a world champ (which I agree with), would an extra couple of holes each round and a final 9 suffice? Say maybe 4 rounds of 21/24 holes and a final 9?
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