2019 DGPT Championship Charlotte, NC Oct 18- 20

[DiscFifty]

I disagree. Cat has putted well at points in her career. Paige has never shown a desire to manage her game for the most part. Hokom is pretty much maxing out her potential and is a good bit older than the others.

paige pierce 28, catrina allen 34, sarah hokom 37

The thing about Cat, if she can make any improvement to her putting it means shaving off ALOT of strokes in her game. Granted if Paige can control ob, that's a huge gain as well. Paige has the distance air shot, Cat has the distance roller. I give the nod in the approach game to Cat. Putting is what separates them the most currently.

Sarah, I agree she has to play literally at the top of her game to give Cat/Paige a serious run for the win. Her putting style has so many variables that can go wrong, too lofty, high arcing, not enough power, nose angle, etc, etc. To my eyes, her putting success seems more based on luck than skill. The more I study her forehand style the more my back/neck hurts.

 

[Harold Duvall]

I believe Catrina's "putting breakthrough" is easily within her grasp, and it would not be at war with her nature like the changes might be for the others. She seems to have the courage to risk two steps back to go fives steps forward which is one of the hallmarks of a champion.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Side note: Is ANYONE ever going to call Hokom on her illegal jump putt?

You could say the same thing about half the players out there in both MPO and FPO and their jump/step putts, including PP

 

[TimSyl]

You could say the same thing about half the players out there in both MPO and FPO and their jump/step putts, including PP

Still doesn't answer the question, when is SOMEONE going to call her (or them)?

 

[brutalbrutus]

Still doesn't answer the question, when is SOMEONE going to call her (or them)?

No idea but I wish they would before the S&D people finally get there way and change the rules...

 

[Cgkdisc]

No idea but I wish they would before the S&D people finally get there way and change the rules...

I suspect it's more likely to go the other way to where step-putt-jumps are allowed all the way from tee to pin and the 10m circle is no more.

 

[JC17393]

I suspect it's more likely to go the other way to where step-putt-jumps are allowed all the way from tee to pin and the 10m circle is no more.

Which still wouldn't solve the legality issues with Hokom's jump putt. I don't think there's a viable re-write of the rules that can solve that. It's 100% an enforcement problem.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Which still wouldn't solve the legality issues with Hokom's jump putt. I don't think there's a viable re-write of the rules that can solve that. It's 100% an enforcement problem.

I agree, although it's possible the RC might also consider changing the rule to where you can release your throw sometime before your foot steps in front of the lie even if it occurs after your supporting point has left the surface.

 

[jvphobic]

I agree, although it's possible the RC might also consider changing the rule to where you can release your throw sometime before your foot steps in front of the lie even if it occurs after your supporting point has left the surface.

I hate to thread drift, but yes the jump putt rule should be re-written so that it is more along the lines of a 3 pointer in Basket Ball. I don't care when you release your disc as long as your plant foot starts out within the the appropriate lie. But, I would like to keep the 10m circle.

 

[Nick Pacific]

Henna and Eveliina are the Finnish Super Powers.

This. Those two Fins are still teenagers. They're going to be the crush girls if they decide to skip college/family and move here and pursue discgolf. Sky is the limit for them, just depends on how bad they want it, if at all.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I hate to thread drift, but yes the jump putt rule should be re-written so that it is more along the lines of a 3 pointer in Basket Ball. I don't care when you release your disc as long as your plant foot starts out within the the appropriate lie. But, I would like to keep the 10m circle.

Here's the thing. Being able to jump or step putt inside 10 meters won't matter much to the MPO in terms of increasing the percentage of putts made. However, it definitely can make a difference to many juniors and amateurs, especially seniors. To keep the rules the same and "fair" for all Jrs, Ams and Pros in a true lifetime sport, it makes more sense to allow jump/step putting all the way to the target. Players will naturally increase their percentage of stand and deliver putts farther and farther from the pin as they get stronger. But many will never get strong enough to where they still feel the need to throw the shot at some distance inside 10 meters versus just use a stand and deliver putting stance, especially on steeper uphill putts.

 

[jvphobic]

TBH. I hadn't thought about seniors and juniors. I like having the circle, but it isn't anything that I am going to die on a hill for. If it went away, I wouldn't complain.

My other thought on that matter was that you adjust the rules so that you can jump putt, but you are not allowed to end up in front of the mini. You need to land in the area behind your mini/disc. The thought of going in front of your designated lie in general is a strange one if you think about it overall.

 

[Cgkdisc]

TBH. I hadn't thought about seniors and juniors. I like having the circle, but it isn't anything that I am going to die on a hill for. If it went away, I wouldn't complain.

My other thought on that matter was that you adjust the rules so that you can jump putt, but you are not allowed to end up in front of the mini. You need to land in the area behind your mini/disc. The thought of going in front of your designated lie in general is a strange one if you think about it overall.

If you think about it, the disc is usually released in front of your lie so it's not strange at all. But requiring players to land behind their lie after releasing before moving forward past it isn't a bad idea. But then, you have to also decide whether they need to maintain balance and make a judgment about that whereas allowing players to simply release before landing in front, even if they fall or continue stepping forward, would probably reduce the need to make fault calls.

 

[jvphobic]

If you think about it, the disc is usually released in front of your lie so it's not strange at all. But requiring players to land behind their lie after releasing before moving forward past it isn't a bad idea. But then, you have to also decide whether they need to maintain balance and make a judgment about that whereas allowing players to simply release before landing in front, even if they fall or continue stepping forward, would probably reduce the need to make fault calls.

Well, all of this could bring into the issue of mid-fairway throws and having your momentum take you in front of the lie. For jump putts I think I would want someone to maintain balance behind the disc personally.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Well, all of this could bring into the issue of mid-fairway throws and having your momentum take you in front of the lie. For jump putts I think I would want someone to maintain balance behind the disc personally.

Using basketball shooting as comparable, it doesn't matter where or how you land (even OB) other than fouling someone if you release the shot before landing or from behind the line on 3-pointers.

 

[Karl]

Using basketball shooting as comparable, it doesn't matter where or how you land (even OB) other than fouling someone if you release the shot before landing or from behind the line on 3-pointers.

Are what you're saying / believe might come of fruition is "Bob Beaman-ing" will be legal? In other words "slam dunking"? I hope not. I hope that's just a delusion on your part. You think judging if the disc leaves the hand prior to 'take off' is hard, try assessing if it leaves prior to landing!

 

[ru4por]

Here's the thing. Being able to jump or step putt inside 10 meters won't matter much to the MPO in terms of increasing the percentage of putts made. However, it definitely can make a difference to many juniors and amateurs, especially seniors. To keep the rules the same and "fair" for all Jrs, Ams and Pros in a true lifetime sport, it makes more sense to allow jump/step putting all the way to the target. Players will naturally increase their percentage of stand and deliver putts farther and farther from the pin as they get stronger. But many will never get strong enough to where they still feel the need to throw the shot at some distance inside 10 meters versus just use a stand and deliver putting stance, especially on steeper uphill putts.

I am not sure it makes much difference in AM's, outside of a few high 900 and 1000 rated MA1 guys. I have seen very few effective jump or step putting in the AM ranks. The same issues that make stand and deliver putting inconsistent, are still the problem with their jump putting.

I guess I don't really see the point of jump putting anyway. I have spend a lifetime throwing a Frisbee to a friend from nearly any distance. Fairly accurately, I might add.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Are what you're saying / believe might come of fruition is "Bob Beaman-ing" will be legal? In other words "slam dunking"? I hope not. I hope that's just a delusion on your part. You think judging if the disc leaves the hand prior to 'take off' is hard, try assessing if it leaves prior to landing!

I agree we don't necessarily want run up, long jumping toward the basket. That would be an argument for having the 10 m circle to where players were only allowed a one step "run-up before taking off. Or, going with JVD's idea, require a player's first contact after releasing in the air to be behind their mark. Yes, I believe determining whether a player has thrown before landing is easier than determining if they released before leaving the ground, at least on jump putts. Step putts are more problematic in that regard which would be another reason to test requiring first contact behind their mark.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I am not sure it makes much difference in AM's, outside of a few high 900 and 1000 rated MA1 guys. I have seen very few effective jump or step putting in the AM ranks. The same issues that make stand and deliver putting inconsistent, are still the problem with their jump putting.

I guess I don't really see the point of jump putting anyway. I have spend a lifetime throwing a Frisbee to a friend from nearly any distance. Fairly accurately, I might add.

Most players of all ages go through a progression of putting stances as they get farther from the basket or the shot is uphill. Putting stance foot forward or straddle > Jumping/stepping > Throwing. Seems like many avid players get to the point where they can use a putting stance out to 10 meters on level ground before needing to get more power from jumping/stepping as the distance increases. However, younger juniors and especially recreational women can only use a putting stance sometimes out to just 10 feet before they feel like they need to jump to get enough power, but they're not allowed to. So they are forced into throwing either toward the base of the pin or tossing a stall to secure getting down in two versus risking a flyby with a hot throw. Of course it technically doesn't matter much what recreational players decide to do outside of competition. However, many do want to follow the rules and allowing jumping closer to the pin would increase their enjoyment of the game and lower their scores a shot or two.

 

[DiscFifty]

The thought of going in front of your designated lie in general is a strange one if you think about it overall.

nahhhh.......