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2019 Pros Switching Sponsors Official Thread

JTacoma03 said:
I'm honestly still not sure, which is the crazy thing! I can see both outcomes happening. Each of the sides is SURE they're right, but I get the sense that the battle isn't over until the ink is dry. Paul is clever with these things.

That's probably why he told those DG Group people that they could stay outside when he negotiates with Innova. Whoever he ends up with, I'd bet he gets a better deal doing it himself than having them represent him.
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Quit interjecting common sense into the lunacy of DGCR; I think it's against some posted rules here. ;)
 
ru4por said:
Inside knowledge? Fill us in Ninja.
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None whatsoever. Just everything I've read on here and reddit (every comment on every related post). I can't see him leaving Innova. They'll match whatever Discraft offers, because Discraft isn't going to offer enough. Innova is worth far more and Paul is worth it to them. They've always had the top players on the team.

Hard to be the Choice of Champions if arguably the best player in the world signs with another company, eh?

Just my thoughts!
 
rj29274 said:
yup. Some people just like pointing out the shortcomings of others. It must feel so good to be right. . .Clerks
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Lol love it. Jay and Silent Bob Get Old just came to my hometown. Totally worth the $40 for the show. My face hurt from laughing by the end.
 
Putt for D'oh said:
I'm not sure the Roc is the right example but there is a reason that this thread is talking about the big money and the contract and its $$. If McBeth didn't increase sales to the point some are claiming here then why would DC be offering anything more than free discs and tournament entry fees? Because his name sells discs... and I would think a LOT of them.

So do many people but damn... how many Novas would actually be sold if Paul hadn't started throwing them and highlighting them? I know avid Nova throwers who HATE MVP/Axiom irrational hate for the Nova as a gimmick that would fade away soon... then McBeth does things and he loves it now. How many people that can't throw a Destroyer love them when they see PMB throw them on short hyzers and flex the bejeesus out of them? And what about ROC3 and T3? Why would most Teebird throwers want a slightly faster less glide Teebird? I like my Teebirds with some G-D glide man... Faster TB? um... you mean a Thunderbird? Damn McBeth's name on a disc pretty much made the market for that thing. I think a Roc3 would be doing ok without him but based on the rest of that stuff i'm sure its become super popular with many people would would have shrugged it off and just said "I'll stick with a Roc thanks."

And to the point about the Sexton FB's haven't you all met folks that because Sexton and Sexybirds believe it is the ONLY "forehand disc" out there? I've met several and heard just about that sentiment on these forums.

Just to say I buy a disc for what I hope it will do. I'm settling into a bag I like and i've avoided trying new discs now that I like what I have and i'm more interested in finding used discs or replacements for exactly what I have. I have way more discs than I need but I know several people that are out buying 3 of whatever workhorse disc the winner of last weekends tournament threw every Sunday night or monday. Those are the players that spend real money and I think there are a lot more out there than some people might think.
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I agree with most of your post, just wanted to add an unrelated point on the Roc3:

Part of the popularity is that they were available in champ plastic from day 1. I don't think they would have taken off as quickly as they did if regular champ Rancho Rocs were more common back then. I remember the month when all of a sudden EVERYONE at my local course had a champ Roc3 in the bag, and 80% of them had never even heard of McBeth at the time.

Of course, they save the champ Rancho Roc for USDGC, which makes that a great fundraiser. Just a different priority behind that tradition.

Even the more "traditional" midrange plastics are still not as popular for the Roc3. They make the McPro and DX now, but those are still much less in demand than the Champ Roc3. It's like a mirror image of how Rancho Roc sales work.
 
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broomerang said:
Discraft might make more money on ultimate than they do on Disc Golf.

8mil revenue - https://www.owler.com/company/discraft
3mil revenue - https://www.owler.com/company/huckthisblog

But combined they don't even come close to innova.

52mil revenue - https://www.owler.com/company/innovadiscgolf

Willing to bet you could combine all the other disc golf companies revenue and they would still be short of Innova.
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Take the numbers for what they are. Easily searched on google. Maybe it's accurate, maybe it isn't.

Unless Innova and Discraft come in here and post their revenue you won't know for sure.
 
I find it hard to believe that anyone posting here has any idea what a privately held company is worth. I have worked for a small (100 employee) privately held company for ~20 years and I have no clue what the company is actually worth.
 
Revenue isn't the same thing as profitability and/or worth.

So, even if 8 and 52 are correct, if Discraft's operating expenses are 5m, and Innova's is 50m, then Discraft is more profitable. Not likely if the revenues are that far apart, but you get what I mean. AFAIK, Discraft has a lot less facilities than Innova does.
 
riltim said:
I find it hard to believe that anyone posting here has any idea what a privately held company is worth. I have worked for a small (100 employee) privately held company for ~20 years and I have no clue what the company is actually worth.
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I work for a publicly held company with >5000 employees. As a part of my job I consult with lots of public and privately held companies. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if there were a lot of people on this forum that were in a similar position. I'll bet that we could research the available information online for a few hours and get pretty close to the actual revenue.

Guessing how much a company is worth (total valuation) is totally different than guessing revenue.

Throw away the numbers if you don't agree with them. By the way you might want to check owler or other similar sites on a local company that you understand better and see if you think they are close or not.

Just look at the spending habits of Innova. They are aggressively expanding into new markets (EU). They are adding new partners every few years that bring in additional sales.

They are behaving like a company that has extra money they are willing to gamble with. Compare that to Discraft.

I've no axe to grind. It doesn't affect me at all where a Pro ends up. It doesn't matter to me how much money either company makes. All I care about is the discs. If either one stops making a disc I like, or they become too hard to find, or another company makes a disc I like better I'll take my money elsewhere. Most of us probably feel the same way.

I just thought it was interesting that people were saying Discraft made MUCH more money than Innova on Ultimate sales alone. It didn't seem right to me so I checked very quickly online. No one else even bothered to post anything other than their opinion.
 
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broomerang said:
I work for a publicly held company with >5000 employees. As a part of my job I consult with lots of public and privately held companies. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if there were a lot of people on this forum that were in a similar position. I'll bet that we could research the available information online for a few hours and get pretty close to the actual revenue.

Guessing how much a company is worth (total valuation) is totally different than guessing revenue.

Throw away the numbers if you don't agree with them. By the way you might want to check owler or other similar sites on a local company that you understand better and see if you think they are close or not.

Just look at the spending habits of Innova. They are aggressively expanding into new markets (EU). They are adding new partners every few years that bring in additional sales.

They are behaving like a company that has extra money they are willing to gamble with. Compare that to Discraft.

I've no axe to grind. It doesn't affect me at all where a Pro ends up. It doesn't matter to me how much money either company makes. All I care about is the discs. If either one stops making a disc I like, or they become too hard to find, or another company makes a disc I like better I'll take my money elsewhere. Most of us probably feel the same way.

I just thought it was interesting that people were saying Discraft made MUCH more money than Innova on Ultimate sales alone. It didn't seem right to me so I checked very quickly online. No one else even bothered to post anything other than their opinion.
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I looked up the company I work for on owler and got a message that "No one has contributed to XXX profile yet". Which to me means its all user submitted data, not aggregated from some sort of legit data streams.

I also have a tough time believing Innova is bringing in $52.5 million a year. They'd have to bring in a little over $14k a day every day of the year to hit that mark. They'd have to sell 1,430 discs a day at $10 a piece or 33 baskets a day at $425.
 
It's also been said about Innova and their inconsistent plastic blends, that they are at the mercy of their suppliers. A company pulling in $52.5 million a year would be have plastic suppliers beating their door down to help them produce a consistent product.
 
riltim said:
It's also been said about Innova and their inconsistent plastic blends, that they are at the mercy of their suppliers. A company pulling in $52.5 million a year would be have plastic suppliers beating their door down to help them produce a consistent product.
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I don't know about Innova's ability to buy "quality" plastic. I don't even know anything about plastic. I do know that 52.5 million in revenue is very very little compared to other lines of manufacturing.

The 1000th ranked company by Fortune made 1.8 Billion in revenue last year. Obviously no one expected a disc golf company to be on this list but you can see that apart from the top dawgs Walmart (500 Billion... :gross:) the bottom of the list 900-1000 are much closer together. You could extrapolate that by the time you got down to 52.5 million there would be thousands of companies of a similar size, probably tens of thousands. http://fortune.com/fortune500/list

Infinite discs posted a blog awhile back that said they sold 10 times as many discs in 2016 as they did when they first started. In that blog they posted a percentage of their sales by brand. It appears to be at least a fairly good gauge of market share.

https://infinitediscs.com/blog/disc-golf-sales-trends-by-brand/

They didn't post how many discs they sold or what the average price was. Can't blame them for that. Same reason the disc golf companies aren't posting their earnings online.

Speculate away!
 
Innova dominating disc golf specialty stores isn't even the whole story. There are lots of stores that only carry Innova (Dicks, Walmart, Big-5 etc).
 
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