A Fresh Addict From Portland, Oregon

[Codo]

Hello fellow addicts,

I'm a fairly new player from Portland and I've caught the bug something fierce.

This addiction isn't new to me, I tend to go "all-in" with hobbies I'm interested in. But disc golf is different. I'm usually just annoyed that I'm not good enough or am unable to keep up with my peers, which drives me to get better. Disc golf is something else. I legitimately want to grow and compete at a serious level in the sport and have every intention of doing so.

A little about me:
- 6 months in the sport (started off casual, and just recently committed to competing)
- 7 year Air Force veteran (wish I knew about the sport while I was active)
- played ball golf semi-competitively while in the service (intramural leagues)
- insanely competitive about just about everything. I don't do it for the winning, I just love facing tough competition
- Pier Park, Timber & Milo are my main courses... but Rockwood Central Park is where I spend the most time

All that said, I'm an analytical guy and love strategy and structure... it's what I do for a living. I'm planning on documenting and blogging my training and growth as I go, so be on the lookout for me in the forums. I'll be blogging, YouTubing and starting my own website as part of this project. That will come soon.

Thanks for your time everyone. Looking forward to diving into this community of fellow addicts.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Well hey welcome to the party! Good luck at it, there's a ton of resources here. Have fun!

 

[RunnerUp]

Hey Codo. Welcome!

I can relate to going "all in" at hobbies. I get into something and I push and push to see how good I can get. I'm also very analytical and competitive... it's no coincidence my day job is as a structural engineer and I played competitive sports into college.

As much as the competition (which can be against myself, so it's always there) I enjoy the physics of disc flight and course strategy in disc golf. This is a good game you've stumbled upon, good luck and I'll see ya around!

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Hey Codo. Welcome!

I can relate to going "all in" at hobbies. I get into something and I push and push to see how good I can get. I'm also very analytical and competitive... it's no coincidence my day job is as a structural engineer and I played competitive sports into college.

As much as the competition (which can be against myself, so it's always there) I enjoy the physics of disc flight and course strategy in disc golf. This is a good game you've stumbled upon, good luck and I'll see ya around!

Well just for fun and since I'm post whoring... here's a neat breakdown on disc physics from the "Noob or stupid questions answered here" thread.


From LoPan12... previous post.. "I'm no aerodynamics expert" ....

Neither am I. I do however have a degree that involved a lot of fluid dynamics. And before you ask the question, air is a fluid. And ArcheType, you're sort of right. I'll try to make this as understandable as I can....but this will get REAL sciencey, so bear with me please, or feel free to just skip this post entirely. Or better yet, go hit the end. After finishing up, I realized the first couple paragraphs aren't directly about "Why do I get more glide as it beats in"

Since we're talking about glide here, we'll treat the disc, as a whole, like a wing, or airfoil, as seen here.

Okay. When the disc flies through the air, you get a distinct seperation of air flow. Now consider two particles that get split up be the disc, one goes on top, one goes on the bottom. They will meet up again, behind the disc, so, because the top one has to travel farther, it is going faster. As speed increases, pressure decreases. You are left with a lower pressure area above the disc, and a higher pressure area below the disc. This phenomenon is called "LIFT" and for a given speed, will overcome the weight of the disc, and push it up. And what about that empty space under the disc? Well in that space, you get all sorts of forces, and I'm not totally sure what the net effect is...so...I'm not even gonna try.
When you now consider the rotation, think about relative speeds. For a RHBH, the left edge of the disc is moving faster than the right edge. So, due to the higher speed, the left edge will create MORE LIFT than the right side. This is shown in Fig. A below. The blue line is the amount of lift exterted on the disc. This is where you get the effect of flip, or HSS. The cant of the the disc then causes the overall lift force to steer the disc to the right.

AH! So why don't all my discs keep going right?
Well...you've got a rotating mass. This causes gyroscopic forces having to do with angular momentum and pitch and roll and whatnot. In a nutshell, the rotating mass of the disc causes a sum of forces call gyroscopic procession. This is what causes LSS, same as HSS, just the opposite direction. Fig. B shows the this force on the disc.
When you first release the disc, it has the most spin it ever will in that flight, and the assymetrical lift forces will outweigh precessional roll. But as the disc slows down, the lift forces aren't as large, and the disc rolls to the left.

It slows down, because of DRAG! Drag is a force that opposes your disc. The friction between the disc and air rob energy and the spin reduces, and the forward speed declines! BTW, a driver has less drag than a putter, due to putters having a blunt edge. So a driver's flight is therefore less lift-driven, and more ballistic. But don't think about that for now.

NOW, those of you still reading (god-bless you) are asking, "Okay, neat...what's this s#$t have to do with beating in and more glide?"
Well, turbulence is our friend here. A turbulent boundary layer on the surfaces of the disc eventually result in less drag! There's more fluid dynamics involved here, but trust me when I say, you end up with less drag. This is why golf balls are dimpled, but the reasons are a bit different for a sphere.
So, as you beat in a disc, it gets all these micro abrasions, that cause little eddies and vortexes that add up to turbulent, chaotic flow. In some cases, while this turbulence increases surface friction drag, the overall effect is a reduction in drag forces. This has to do with boundary layers, seperation points, and changes in pressure fields. But I'm damned tired.
The beating in reduces drag (to a point, then you start to get screwed again) allowing a disc to maintain the various lift forces for longer, lettings it go longer before fading, letting it glide longer.
Yeah. I think. Good Night.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

The pictures are long gone... but I found this to be helpful in understanding stuff..

Good luck sorting everything out.. Did I tell you to get a Comet yet? Someone will....

 

[jeffmonty]

Get a Comet. No, really. Get a Comet.

 

[Codo]

Well just for fun and since I'm post whoring... here's a neat breakdown on disc physics from the "Noob or stupid questions answered here" thread.


From LoPan12... previous post.. "I'm no aerodynamics expert" ....

Neither am I. I do however have a degree that involved a lot of fluid dynamics. And before you ask the question, air is a fluid. And ArcheType, you're sort of right. I'll try to make this as understandable as I can....but this will get REAL sciencey, so bear with me please, or feel free to just skip this post entirely. Or better yet, go hit the end. After finishing up, I realized the first couple paragraphs aren't directly about "Why do I get more glide as it beats in"

Since we're talking about glide here, we'll treat the disc, as a whole, like a wing, or airfoil, as seen here.

Okay. When the disc flies through the air, you get a distinct seperation of air flow. Now consider two particles that get split up be the disc, one goes on top, one goes on the bottom. They will meet up again, behind the disc, so, because the top one has to travel farther, it is going faster. As speed increases, pressure decreases. You are left with a lower pressure area above the disc, and a higher pressure area below the disc. This phenomenon is called "LIFT" and for a given speed, will overcome the weight of the disc, and push it up. And what about that empty space under the disc? Well in that space, you get all sorts of forces, and I'm not totally sure what the net effect is...so...I'm not even gonna try.
When you now consider the rotation, think about relative speeds. For a RHBH, the left edge of the disc is moving faster than the right edge. So, due to the higher speed, the left edge will create MORE LIFT than the right side. This is shown in Fig. A below. The blue line is the amount of lift exterted on the disc. This is where you get the effect of flip, or HSS. The cant of the the disc then causes the overall lift force to steer the disc to the right.

AH! So why don't all my discs keep going right?
Well...you've got a rotating mass. This causes gyroscopic forces having to do with angular momentum and pitch and roll and whatnot. In a nutshell, the rotating mass of the disc causes a sum of forces call gyroscopic procession. This is what causes LSS, same as HSS, just the opposite direction. Fig. B shows the this force on the disc.
When you first release the disc, it has the most spin it ever will in that flight, and the assymetrical lift forces will outweigh precessional roll. But as the disc slows down, the lift forces aren't as large, and the disc rolls to the left.

It slows down, because of DRAG! Drag is a force that opposes your disc. The friction between the disc and air rob energy and the spin reduces, and the forward speed declines! BTW, a driver has less drag than a putter, due to putters having a blunt edge. So a driver's flight is therefore less lift-driven, and more ballistic. But don't think about that for now.

NOW, those of you still reading (god-bless you) are asking, "Okay, neat...what's this s#$t have to do with beating in and more glide?"
Well, turbulence is our friend here. A turbulent boundary layer on the surfaces of the disc eventually result in less drag! There's more fluid dynamics involved here, but trust me when I say, you end up with less drag. This is why golf balls are dimpled, but the reasons are a bit different for a sphere.
So, as you beat in a disc, it gets all these micro abrasions, that cause little eddies and vortexes that add up to turbulent, chaotic flow. In some cases, while this turbulence increases surface friction drag, the overall effect is a reduction in drag forces. This has to do with boundary layers, seperation points, and changes in pressure fields. But I'm damned tired.
The beating in reduces drag (to a point, then you start to get screwed again) allowing a disc to maintain the various lift forces for longer, lettings it go longer before fading, letting it glide longer.
Yeah. I think. Good Night.

Thanks for sharing this. I've been trying to better understand why "beat in" discs tend to become less stable. It's still very confusing because my intuition wants to assume that abrasions would naturally increase drag, therefore decreasing overall speed and causing the disc to have a shorter flight. I wanted to believe initially that beating in a disc would increase it's flexibility, ie, allowing for it to stretch under the extreme gyroscopic forces, causing greater surface area and an enhanced ability "catch air".

I'm a prior aircraft mechanic, so the idea of air displacement is a familIar topic. We had to learn all of this stuff in school... but it's rusty. Thanks for spiking My interest here, I'm going to go do some reading.

 

[Codo]

Get a Comet. No, really. Get a Comet.

Here's what I bag -

D3
Gstar Destroyer
Star Monster
Star Firebird
Star Thunderbird
Star TL3
Champ Teebird
Mako3
Roc3
Warden
GT Banger

I'm throwing 350+ with control and can rip it out past 400 with the Gstar Destroyer and D3 on a hyzer flip line. Currently working on being better at hitting lines and working on the ability to throw anny shots. Backhand and forehand are both bombers �� but I suck at aiming.


Please tell me more about the comet! I'm open to adjusting my bag, as I'm only just figuring things out.

 

[Codo]

Oh and this ace race 2014 disc. It's flight chart is 9 5 -3 1

It's too understable for me to throw FH or BH. I'm going to be working on understable discs soon.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Oh and this ace race 2014 disc. It's flight chart is 9 5 -3 1

It's too understable for me to throw FH or BH. I'm going to be working on understable discs soon.

Well let's quote the short post haha... so that disc you have from 2014 is the Heat... I've heard lots of folks say it's understable and can work some extended flip lines.. I haven't thrown one myself I'm one of those Gyro guys.. I did look at a Sting but it got sold before I got back to the store.

With the exception of the Comet of course, I've got a stack of those, I had probably 40+ discs before I joined the forum and someone was talking about smoother form and everyone suggested the Comet (and an XL).. Anyhow picked one up threw it and an Ion exclusively for about four months and started gaining some distance because my form got better.

The Comet can "go 300' on a frozen rope" , it's a classic midrange similar to a Roc in feel, less stable and very neutral. You can control many flights by adjusting nose angle etc. It will likely be a bit flippy for you to start but the glide is insane, it can fly really far and does it slowly. As a woods player there's always a Comet in my bag.. There's a few Comet threads going... Comet Love and ask MJ / Comet love... yes two threads almost the same name... check those out.

If you were thinking about getting one everyone will tell you to get an X Comet and break it in, I will tell you to get a glow Z then you can play at night too.. But part of my preference is durability since I live on a rock pile. Personally I like the 174-176g though I have 8 in various weights and plastic. Given that you are used to stable plastic and that Roc, any Comet would probably work around 174g... stick with it because it won't have the stability you are used to but it's just following the line you put it on.

 

[filobedo]

Here's what I bag -

D3
Gstar Destroyer
Star Monster
Star Firebird
Star Thunderbird
Star TL3
Champ Teebird
Mako3
Roc3
Warden
GT Banger

I'm throwing 350+ with control and can rip it out past 400 with the Gstar Destroyer and D3 on a hyzer flip line. Currently working on being better at hitting lines and working on the ability to throw anny shots. Backhand and forehand are both bombers �� but I suck at aiming.


Please tell me more about the comet! I'm open to adjusting my bag, as I'm only just figuring things out.

Bag a Comet, Gator/Drone and pick between the Firebird and Monster. Also throw mids and putters often versus Destroyers. Many new players get stuck after several months because they learned to play with drivers instead of throwing mids. If you stick with Thunderbirds also check out Orcs. Also, decide on a company that makes the jorts you feel most comfortable with if you plan to make dg your life, Wrangler or Dickies. Lol

 

[Codo]

Bag a Comet, Gator/Drone and pick between the Firebird and Monster. Also throw mids and putters often versus Destroyers. Many new players get stuck after several months because they learned to play with drivers instead of throwing mids. If you stick with Thunderbirds also check out Orcs. Also, decide on a company that makes the jorts you feel most comfortable with if you plan to make dg your life, Wrangler or Dickies. Lol

I'll likely keep the firebird. The monster was acquired in a trade and I only keep it because it's such a freak of a disc.

I'm going to go take a look at the comets and gators! Haven't looked into the Orc yet, but I will!

Thanks!

 

[Codo]

Well let's quote the short post haha... so that disc you have from 2014 is the Heat... I've heard lots of folks say it's understable and can work some extended flip lines.. I haven't thrown one myself I'm one of those Gyro guys.. I did look at a Sting but it got sold before I got back to the store.

With the exception of the Comet of course, I've got a stack of those, I had probably 40+ discs before I joined the forum and someone was talking about smoother form and everyone suggested the Comet (and an XL).. Anyhow picked one up threw it and an Ion exclusively for about four months and started gaining some distance because my form got better.

The Comet can "go 300' on a frozen rope" , it's a classic midrange similar to a Roc in feel, less stable and very neutral. You can control many flights by adjusting nose angle etc. It will likely be a bit flippy for you to start but the glide is insane, it can fly really far and does it slowly. As a woods player there's always a Comet in my bag.. There's a few Comet threads going... Comet Love and ask MJ / Comet love... yes two threads almost the same name... check those out.

If you were thinking about getting one everyone will tell you to get an X Comet and break it in, I will tell you to get a glow Z then you can play at night too.. But part of my preference is durability since I live on a rock pile. Personally I like the 174-176g though I have 8 in various weights and plastic. Given that you are used to stable plastic and that Roc, any Comet would probably work around 174g... stick with it because it won't have the stability you are used to but it's just following the line you put it on.

Ok, I'm sold. I'm gonna check out the comet

 

[RunnerUp]

Well just for fun and since I'm post whoring... here's a neat breakdown on disc physics from the "Noob or stupid questions answered here" thread.

[text removed by RunnerUp]

The beating in reduces drag (to a point, then you start to get screwed again) allowing a disc to maintain the various lift forces for longer, lettings it go longer before fading, letting it glide longer.

This is awesome info! Most of it agrees with my own general reasoning on the subject (I am a structural engineer and design water tanks, so I have some knowledge on fluid dynamics... not extensive though).

However, I had thought that a beat-in disc must lose translational speed vs the fresh / smooth version. I reasoned that a smooth disc flying into a headwind flips more because the forward-spin side got more lift than normal (and vice-versa), and sort of just assumed the surface resistance of the beat disc acted in the same way. With that thinking one would resolve the disc must translate slower in both cases.

I think I can buy the boundary layer improving drag to a certain extent of "beatness" though. I've noticed on airplane wings you can still see the rivets, which must cause some degree of drag, and wondered why a coating wasn't applied to smooth out the surface.. maybe this is a related example?

Anyway, cool read. Thanks!

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Cool man.. Yeah it was LoPan12 that wrote that up.. He's still around.. I think it was post 402 in "Stupid Questions answered or noob questions" or something like that

 

[Shutrbug]

@ThrowaEnvy - One more reply and you hit 2,000....

I went to the Next Gen tournament in Birmingham, AL a few weeks ago to see 'real' people throw. It's not as big of a tourny apparently as the ones I see on YouTube, but it was still fun to see the vendor setup. There were two there - both were local course designers, which was cool. I asked for some recommended beginner discs, and I got a Comet.

I didn't yet know about the Comet love here, so it's cool to read that. This particular one wasn't stamped with numbers, so I didn't know if it was supposed to fly straight or fade one way or the other - but it just WORKS for me. Even as a brand new player, I can see why you guys recommend it for folks like me.

Took some kids to the local course to play recently. I had bought one kid a beginner pack from Discraft, and I bought the other group some Innova discs. My 7yo son had my wife's beginner pack from Dynamic Discs. This way, we could all try the different brands and see what worked. I told them I wasn't an expert yet, but I knew from this site that we should all start to throw putters to get our form correct.

Of course, the kids (all 13 and younger) want to throw drivers and midranges to get the distance, so everyone threw what they could get to work. Drivers mostly hyzered out of bounds, so midranges quickly became the disc of choice. The youngest kid, age 6, picked out the Comet. He began throwing much farther and straighter than he had with his Aviar! I think I'm gonna go shopping for me another one so he can keep it. I understand the Comet Love now...

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

@ThrowaEnvy - One more reply and you hit 2,000....

I asked for some recommended beginner discs, and I got a Comet.

I didn't yet know about the Comet love here, so it's cool to read that. This particular one wasn't stamped with numbers, so I didn't know if it was supposed to fly straight or fade one way or the other - but it just WORKS for me. Even as a brand new player, I can see why you guys recommend it for folks like me.
.....

Of course, the kids (all 13 and younger) want to throw drivers and midranges to get the distance, so everyone threw what they could get to work. Drivers mostly hyzered out of bounds, so midranges quickly became the disc of choice. The youngest kid, age 6, picked out the Comet. He began throwing much farther and straighter than he had with his Aviar! I think I'm gonna go shopping for me another one so he can keep it. I understand the Comet Love now...

Haha well thanks for the shout out! This makes 2000 posts.

Glad you found a Comet! Everyone should have a Comet, it's my most given away disc... I played a round last night with two Comets I'm trying to break in... it was shameful.. The night before that was stellar though.

Did Codo get a Comet yet?

 

[Codo]

Haha well thanks for the shout out! This makes 2000 posts.

Glad you found a Comet! Everyone should have a Comet, it's my most given away disc... I played a round last night with two Comets I'm trying to break in... it was shameful.. The night before that was stellar though.

Did Codo get a Comet yet?

No comet yet... it's next on my list though.

I linked up with a local pro this week for coaching, so I'm sticking to his advice while I scale the learning curve. Once I have all of my throw ironed out, then I'll go shopping for myself.

 

[BrotherDave]

I'm throwing 350+ with control and can rip it out past 400 with the Gstar Destroyer and D3 on a hyzer flip line. Currently working on being better at hitting lines and working on the ability to throw anny shots. Backhand and forehand are both bombers �� but I suck at aiming.

My concern is you are strong arming your throws (350+ is really good for strong arming, by the way). Once you loosen up and let body mechanics do the work for you, you will start feeling what we call "the hit." Maximizing the hit and timing when it happens is the fundamental point of the throw. When you start getting a feel for when the disc wants to zip out, you can line up and start hitting all those gaps you have trouble aiming. We have a saying, "Smooth is far."

 

[Codo]

My concern is you are strong arming your throws (350+ is really good for strong arming, by the way). Once you loosen up and let body mechanics do the work for you, you will start feeling what we call "the hit." Maximizing the hit and timing when it happens is the fundamental point of the throw. When you start getting a feel for when the disc wants to zip out, you can line up and start hitting all those gaps you have trouble aiming. We have a saying, "Smooth is far."

I don't have the experience to know if you're right or wrong about my throw... But i'll tell you that I believe what you said to be true. I most certainly strong arming and my right hip and knee are paying for it.

I started working with a coach (shoutout to Tim Skellenger of Portland, Oregon) who said 1. My timing is off, so my lower body power isn't transferring into the throw 2. I'm not generating the snap at release. AKA missing the "hit". Also, I'm working with Disc Golf Strong to begin training my body for mobility and power in addition to my own yoga and powerlifting routine.

After reviewing video and attempting to actually find the "hit", I am pretty sure that mine is lacking or nonexistent. I'm working on tower drills, lower body timing and using video to slowly build my throw so that I'm both transferring my lower body power into the hit and actually allow the hit to hit

TL/DR: I agree and i'm working on it. Thanks for bringing it up and reinforcing the notion that it's something to work on.