[Innova] All Things FIREBIRD

[Brockness Monster]

I don't know the others, but I propose calling the Alex Geisinger Firebirds, Firesingers........or Singerbirds.

 

[GripEnemy]

anytime a disc is flattened the wing will go down making them less stable. Hence why beat/flippy destroyers are generally flatter

No.

A disc with dome will increase stability when flattened. The center of the circle will be lowered and every outside edge will rise.

 

[tylerc]

Then why are FAF Firebirds way more OS than domey ones? IME it depends on the mold.

Because that is how they come out of the mold. It is completely different. I can take any domey firebird and make it just as flat but it wont be nearly as OS

 

[tylerc]

No.

A disc with dome will increase stability when flattened. The center of the circle will be lowered and every outside edge will rise.

False there bud..

The dome will make it not hold an angle as long giving the appearance of being more over stable. Go flatten a domed out destroyer it will be much less stable. I know because I have done it a lot.

PD2, destroyer, force, firebird, d1, d2, boss, katana, giant, trident, teebird, leopard, zone, roc, gator are all the discs I have flattened and become less overstable.

Also used Innova's flattening machine and the same thing happened.

 

[GripEnemy]

I too have flattened a ton of molds. No I don't throw Destroyers (but I have enough to know their flight range).

How do my pictures I just took differ? Please explain how my second photo is more understable. It's a 160 domey Star Firebird FWIW

 

[GripEnemy]

Double.

False there bud..

The dome will make it not hold an angle as long giving the appearance of being more over stable.

Appearance of a flight, or fade sooner/have more HSS?

 

[tylerc]

Double.



Appearance of a flight, or fade sooner/have more HSS?

Flatten that firebird and tell me how it flies before and after.

Stability all depends on the PLH. Your picture tells me nothing but you squished the dome flat. Measure the PLH from bottom of wing to wing tip then flatten it and measure your PLH. Flattened it will be lower.

Squishing does not equal flattening

Depending on dome you could get anywhere from a 0-2mm (about 2 I have no clue the change possibility could be more) PLH change. 0 being almost no dome, 2 being poppy dome.

 

[GripEnemy]

Squishing was a temporary flatten for example purposes. How is the example any different than if I actually spent the time to flatten it today? The weight would be pressing on the rim exactly as my hand is.

Yes for discussion purposes I'm thoroughly considering taking the time to film it pre and post flattening process. I'll take pictures and videos for you and the readers with popcorn.


FYI I too have done it to a bunch of molds like: Kite, Cobra, Buzzz, Magnet, Surge, JLS, Banshee, Drone, Roadrunner, Valkyrie Sidewinder Flow, Fuse, Tursas, Hurricane, Predator, Comet, Sentinel, Roc, Glide, Teebird, Cyclone, Gazelle, Cheetah, blah blah blah. Point is I feel as strong about my opinion as you do yours.

 

[joecoin]

I don't know the others, but I propose calling the Alex Geisinger Firebirds, Firesingers........or Singerbirds.

How about Geyserbirds?

 

[pjhayes7]

Squishing was a temporary flatten for example purposes. How is the example any different than if I actually spent the time to flatten it today? The weight would be pressing on the rim exactly as my hand is.

Yes for discussion purposes I'm thoroughly considering taking the time to film it pre and post flattening process. I'll take pictures and videos for you and the readers with popcorn.


FYI I too have done it to a bunch of molds like: Kite, Cobra, Buzzz, Magnet, Surge, JLS, Banshee, Drone, Roadrunner, Valkyrie Sidewinder Flow, Fuse, Tursas, Hurricane, Predator, Comet, Sentinel, Roc, Glide, Teebird, Cyclone, Gazelle, Cheetah, blah blah blah. Point is I feel as strong about my opinion as you do yours.

Pictures...yes please. This science class/experimenting stuff gets me excited.

As far as my opinion, I think it depends on the technique to flatten. Look at the recent run of Flat Topped Firebirds. These are ones that don't come out of the mold super flat, but are put in a machine that flattens them (Ching process I think is what it is called). These tend to be more overstable than the average Champion Firebird. Not as much as the original FAFs, but still more overstable. So, why can someone not duplicate that at home to some degree?

 

[pjhayes7]

My personal technique it to put the hot water in the upside down disc, but I don't put the weight directly on the disc. I have a bowl that is perfect that I put on the disc and then the weight on top of that (I even drilled a hole in the bowl so it doesn't create suction and flattens the disc as much as possible). That way the pressure is more toward the outside of the wing and not where the wing meets the rim (where the bead would be on a Roc).

Why are there almost no flat Firebirds left? It makes me depressed and want to put an Ahti back in my bag...

BTW, are you looking for these b/c of how overstable they are, or just prefer a flat disc?

anytime a disc is flattened the wing will go down making them less stable. Hence why beat/flippy destroyers are generally flatter

What flattening technique are you using?

 

[GripEnemy]

^I got you:thmbup: To clarify, the 5lb weights I use have a hole in center for a bar [bench or curl etc] to be inserted through...no suction here either! Suction can totally affect the way the disc comes to a "rest" for lack of a better word.

 

[pjhayes7]

^I got you:thmbup: To clarify, the 5lb weights I use have a hole in center for a bar [bench or curl etc] to be inserted through...no suction here either! Suction can totally affect the way the disc comes to a "rest" for lack of a better word.

Yeah, I figured that out after the first time using the bowl. I had done a couple with just a weight and had the bowl idea. But after, realized I needed a hole in the bottom of the bowl.

I don't really care so much about increased stability, as even a regular Firebird is plenty for me. I just prefer to flatten them out, as it feels more comfortable to forehand.

 

[tylerc]

What flattening technique are you using?

Oven at 200 for 10 min then 10 min upside down on a flat table with weight on it. Usually I use a 45 lb plate

If that doesnt work I have done up to 225. Also 10 min in the freezer after can help hold.

 

[Moose33]

My personal technique it to put the hot water in the upside down disc, but I don't put the weight directly on the disc. I have a bowl that is perfect that I put on the disc and then the weight on top of that (I even drilled a hole in the bowl so it doesn't create suction and flattens the disc as much as possible). That way the pressure is more toward the outside of the wing and not where the wing meets the rim (where the bead would be on a Roc).



BTW, are you looking for these b/c of how overstable they are, or just prefer a flat disc?



What flattening technique are you using?

More OS and more comfortable for FH. I have to give the current ones a touch of hyzer and it makes my form feel I consistent.

 

[GripEnemy]

Most of the video files were corrupted today, apparently my SD is ****ting the bed? I have a choppy couple minutes to work with..I'll add them into some shots I take on Tuesday. Flattening will occur then! Four discs FWIW

 

[Alexplz]

My personal technique it to put the hot water in the upside down disc, but I don't put the weight directly on the disc. I have a bowl that is perfect that I put on the disc and then the weight on top of that (I even drilled a hole in the bowl so it doesn't create suction and flattens the disc as much as possible). That way the pressure is more toward the outside of the wing and not where the wing meets the rim (where the bead would be on a Roc).



BTW, are you looking for these b/c of how overstable they are, or just prefer a flat disc?



What flattening technique are you using?

I could imagine that this would clover warp a domey disc if you're not careful. In an attempt to make my own homemade flat top rocs, I've clovered a couple KC rocs by placing maybe too much weight or using too hot water. Putting more pressure on the outer wing to keep the PLH high I imagine would put even more pressure on the flight plate?

 

[tylerc]

I could imagine that this would clover warp a domey disc if you're not careful. In an attempt to make my own homemade flat top rocs, I've clovered a couple KC rocs by placing maybe too much weight or using too hot water. Putting more pressure on the outer wing to keep the PLH high I imagine would put even more pressure on the flight plate?

Nah you cant do too much weight or too hot of water.. water only gets to boiling temps which are perfectly fine.. I have used up to 70 pounds on a disc and never clovered one.. I do only place the disc on a perfectly flat surface like a countertop or table though.

Yes you can get water hotter.. but it boils off so fast it is ridiculous to assume that.. You probably could do too much weight at some point but I have had cars park on my disc and it didn't warp it permanently..

 

[dysmike]

Also, let the water cool in the disc... that'd control cooling.

 

[runningDoc]

DGU store has PEARLY FLAT TOP NEW OLD STOCK FIREBIRDS (FOUND IN WAREHOUSE). best part is that its stock prices too.

https://store.discgolfunited.com/pearly-flat-top-champion-firebird.html