Lamp
Eagle Member
You can, but you just have to clarify that you a bagger in Men's Novice.
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Am world BAGGERS
- Thread starter MrRaider
- Start date
You can, but you just have to clarify that you a bagger in Men's Novice.
Lamp
Eagle Member
*YOU'RE* :doh:
Not only did you let all of us down, but you let yourself down.
Way worse.
Way worse.
It hasn't been a problem for all the years that the amateur world championships have been held. Why is it suddenly a "problem" now?
Go back to the earliest amateur worlds (that's going back 25 years or so), and you'll find that the players that finish at or near the top all fall into two categories...guys who'd moved up to Open (declining any cash) in the months preceding Worlds and guys who continue to play (and place well, if not win) Advanced and endure the "bagger" crap ad naseum. It's just the nature of a tournament you have to qualify for up to a year in advance, and register for months in advance, where the lone thing that can get you disqualified from eligibility is playing a pro division and accepting cash.
Few players are entering Worlds just as they're reaching their "peak" as an amateur and are "ready" to take the step into Open. They're usually well past that "ready for Open" point by the time Worlds starts. These players view Worlds as a capstone on their am "career", and rightly so. I see no reason to consider that as some sort of problem.
In my opinion it's better if they do that---maintain their "amateur" status, as defined by PDGA, not accepting cash while competing in Open divisions---than continuing to compete in Advanced, stacking up merchandise and wins.
"Open" is not synonymous with "Pro", so I see no problem. (To be honest, I see no problem, either way).
There's not a problem now because disc golf is still relatively small, but you can't tell me that if disc golf starting getting the potential for big sponsors and the mainstream public got interested that they could continue to operate this way because it doesn't make a lot of sense.
How are you going to explain that well open is where pros play but if you're in open you're not technically a pro and even though these ams are playing with pros they're still ams so they're sorta pros all year but for one or two tourneys a year they're ams and they're beating all these ams who are really ams playing am all year but when those ams get to these major am tourneys they're playing guys who are really pro level but we're still calling them ams because they took plastic instead of money....
Yea good luck with that. This little dog and pony show won't last forever. At some point a possible major sponsor is going to ask what the open field can bring to their business and wonder why a bunch of weekend warrior non pros are playing with pros. You can't continue to have everything mixed up and wish for major money to flow in to the sport.
Eventually a clear distinction will have to be made and guys that play in open all year will have to clearly designated as no longer being an am. Beyond all of that it's just dumb and I know a lot of people agree with me.
How are you going to explain that well open is where pros play but if you're in open you're not technically a pro and even though these ams are playing with pros they're still ams so they're sorta pros all year but for one or two tourneys a year they're ams and they're beating all these ams who are really ams playing am all year but when those ams get to these major am tourneys they're playing guys who are really pro level but we're still calling them ams because they took plastic instead of money....
Yea good luck with that. This little dog and pony show won't last forever. At some point a possible major sponsor is going to ask what the open field can bring to their business and wonder why a bunch of weekend warrior non pros are playing with pros. You can't continue to have everything mixed up and wish for major money to flow in to the sport.
Eventually a clear distinction will have to be made and guys that play in open all year will have to clearly designated as no longer being an am. Beyond all of that it's just dumb and I know a lot of people agree with me.
throwfromthewoods
Double Eagle Member
I agree with the sentiment, but it's a tough sell. For example, the U.S. Open for ball golf is a major championship and lets amateurs play if they are under a certain handicap. So designating a major title's Open division as "pro only" doesn't follow with other sports that do get mass millions in corporate sponsorship.
However, I am with you 100% that the current way of doing things is flawed and even shoddy. Disc Golf is growing every year in players and tournaments, and eventually things will have to be restructured more drastically than a few rule tweaks at yearly meetings.
I'd even like to see Advanced designated as a Pro division like Masters. But that's speaking from my local experiences.
However, I am with you 100% that the current way of doing things is flawed and even shoddy. Disc Golf is growing every year in players and tournaments, and eventually things will have to be restructured more drastically than a few rule tweaks at yearly meetings.
I'd even like to see Advanced designated as a Pro division like Masters. But that's speaking from my local experiences.
This right here. Seems like many DGers do not understand this part of it at all. I was flamed many times in other threads for questioning the current set-up of divisions and is partially why I have nothing to do with the PDGA as its a melting pot of basically just organized disc golf... There is no such thing as "Professional" DG and our sport will never get anywhere outside of being a recreational/leisure activity without the kind of change NEW013 mentions. I don't even think the people at the PDGA understand this concept nor maybe do they even care but how about "re-branding" the PDGA to something which better suits its current activities then.
If so....it won't be the 1000-rated players finishing in the middle of the pack and maintaining their amateur status that raise eyebrows. It will be the 960-rated players, calling themselves "pros" because they paid an extra $25 to the PDGA and occasionally win a few dozen dollars in local tournaments.
Lamp
Eagle Member
biscoe
* Ace Member *
how is anyone supposed to police that?
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,039
its not true if you dont source it
so what probably 90% of the current AMs are now Pros...awesome!
What if someone stole it from you and THEY sold it for cash???
What if your brother put your merch up on ebay and you had so many you never noticed?
Or --- what if you gave it to your SPOUSE, and then the spouse sells it???
Slippery slope...
Even though each sport / governing body determines THEIR definition for "Professional" and "Amateur" (status(es)), one could look at it as:
Disc Golf has NO amateurs...except for the few players who have NEVER won anything.
Disc Golf has NO professionals...except for the few people who actually DO make their living via disc golf.
That we continue espousing our 'status' as either of these (and we, as a sport, believe it's important enough to actually have these statuses), will probably just muddy the waters, hurt us in the end, and presently delude ourselves (never a good thing if you believe you're strong enough to 'face the truth').
Disc Golf has NO amateurs...except for the few players who have NEVER won anything.
Disc Golf has NO professionals...except for the few people who actually DO make their living via disc golf.
That we continue espousing our 'status' as either of these (and we, as a sport, believe it's important enough to actually have these statuses), will probably just muddy the waters, hurt us in the end, and presently delude ourselves (never a good thing if you believe you're strong enough to 'face the truth').
In golf, they have amateurs who play in professional tournaments. I think they can even accept some small amount of cash and keep their amateur status ($500 iirc). Has that held them back and muddied the waters?
I stand by my hypothesis / suppositions (understanding that they're just MY thoughts and certainly not gospel). There seem to be MANY different ways to "organize" strata (if any are deemed to be needed) within dg so what ARE the benefits of having so-called "Pros" and "AMs" as statuses that couldn't be also had via other systems?
Karl
Karl
Well,
---"Pro" & "Am" separate skill levels in a way that is immediately clear to anyone, in or out of the sport.
---"Pro" confers a level of prestige, at the very least feeding the egos of those players.
---Pro/Am gives a justification for the payment system. In any other system, it might be harder to allow cash payments to the top division, and require merch to all others. And the wholesale/retail margin on merch underwrites the tournament structure. Any other division of skill levels would have to re-address the rewards system.
---"Pro" & "Am" are conveniently short words.
discgolf4lif3
Birdie Member
Joseph Stettinger
Thank you. Maybe next year I can win it
Sunday at 12:28pm
Does this mean he cant accept cash in open? What happens if you do you can not be Am? who polices that? ive heard of people reserving there status to train for big tournys but ive never seen anyone do it
Thank you. Maybe next year I can win it
Sunday at 12:28pm
Does this mean he cant accept cash in open? What happens if you do you can not be Am? who polices that? ive heard of people reserving there status to train for big tournys but ive never seen anyone do it
When I was playing it was $20. About a sleeve of ProV1s if you took merch. That was several years ago, though. Wiki says 500 pounds, or $750.
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