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Am world BAGGERS
- Thread starter MrRaider
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The Hammer
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I don't see why they should. Is there a compelling reason for it? If the ratings are silimar, what difference would it make? One just gets paid out in merchandise/gift certificates, the other in cash.
I'm not following. Kind of like the rest of this thread. :| Are you saying that they should take off the restriction for Pro's playing down so that an Open player could play down in Advanced if they wanted? I have no problem with that. What is the difference between getting beat by a 1000 rated player who has accepted cash or a 1000 rated player who hasn't?
I say we put the ratings cap for Adv at one lower than whatever 1978 is at just for the laughs.
If we stipulate that there is a difference between amateurs and professionals, then the idea is that amateurs shouldn't have to compete against pros because of that difference. They are separate classifications, and can compete separately. (As with other sports, where skill level alone does not bridge the divide).
Of course, the allowance for pros under 975 playing Advanced undercuts this notion.
If you don't agree to the stipulation---if there's no real difference between amateurs and professionals---then it's much harder to defend protection for the 1000-rated Am.
The Hammer
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I was kinda thinking out loud after reading David's post. What if ams and pros weren't seperated, but there was still a division structure based on ratings similar to now, but with a cap on ratings in advanced, and then open (not specifically pro) . People would be free to play up, but no one can play down a division. Payout could be paid in either gift certicates, or cash, depending on am/pro status.
NOStheBOSS
Double Eagle Member
The Hammer
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Lower rated pros could play advanced or open. Higher rated pro have to stay in open. Both would be paid out in cash if they place in their respective divisions.
Allurex
* Ace Member *
My biggest qualm with the whole Am baggers thing is that I don't even understand why someone would want to continue to play Am for that long. I understand the allure of trying to win certain titles (most notably AM Worlds, obviously), but beyond that I don't see the point. Even further, if you're a really competitive person who wants to be 'the best', wouldn't you want to be the best in the best division? Being the best player in the 2nd best division doesn't make you the best.
By the time someone is rated above like 950-960ish, they've probably won more than enough plastic, and playing in Am divisions can be really annoying sometimes. I know that playing open costs a bit more (or a lot more), but I think there's considerably more to be gained.
I know that I enjoy playing with better players than me, and often times I feel like I can learn if I'm playing with open-level players instead of Ams (especially if they're worse than me).
I'm only rated 936, will probably be up to like 950 after the next update, and I don't see myself playing Amateur any longer than the next year. I've shot some rounds in the 980s and 990s, so I know that if I play well I can compete in Open in small events. I'm sure I'll donate in open for a while (or a long time), but I don't really care. I don't play Disc Golf Tournaments to win discs or even so that I can say I won an event.
I played with a guy today at Worlds who said he has won advanced in 15 tournaments. What's the ****ing point?
By the time someone is rated above like 950-960ish, they've probably won more than enough plastic, and playing in Am divisions can be really annoying sometimes. I know that playing open costs a bit more (or a lot more), but I think there's considerably more to be gained.
I know that I enjoy playing with better players than me, and often times I feel like I can learn if I'm playing with open-level players instead of Ams (especially if they're worse than me).
I'm only rated 936, will probably be up to like 950 after the next update, and I don't see myself playing Amateur any longer than the next year. I've shot some rounds in the 980s and 990s, so I know that if I play well I can compete in Open in small events. I'm sure I'll donate in open for a while (or a long time), but I don't really care. I don't play Disc Golf Tournaments to win discs or even so that I can say I won an event.
I played with a guy today at Worlds who said he has won advanced in 15 tournaments. What's the ****ing point?
The whole thing is a can of worms. The PDGA has a lot invested in trying to convince sponsors that there IS a difference, that Pro disc golfers are elite athletes. They are selling the idea that there is a distinct difference between the tank top and jorts dude playing advanced and an Open player.
So what if they ever did get significant sponsorship and you could make a living winning last cash in disc golf tournaments? If the 1000-rated guy turned his back on that opportunity and stayed AM, would anyone care?
For the record, Am Worlds isn't a pure example of everybody in one division, because you still have to meet certain requirements to be able to play (based on points, etc.) like for my daughter next year, I know for her to play in the 2014 Am Worlds she will have to compete in at least two tournaments this year (she is in the girls under ten division so it's different qualifications then it would be for us, of course) They do it that way, I imagine, to keep the ringers out.
Now, on with the arguments please....
Now, on with the arguments please....
Eliminating the Pro/Am distinction would certainly make it easier to put a ratings cap on Advanced, and resolve this particular problem (a very minor problem, in some of our views).
Then would be the thornier issue of, Do you continue paying cash to the top division, merch to all others? If so, why? If not, you now have the even thornier issue of revising the entire tournament financial structure.
Another option would be to create an Open Amateur level above Advanced. Players over a certain rating, perhaps 980, would be bumped to it. Of course, at this stage of our growth it would be a very small division, but 1000-rated players who insisted on not playing Pro could play in divisions or 1 or 2 or 3, and quit beating up on the 940-rated Advanced. And they wouldn't win enough merch for anyone to say they it was the incentive for not going pro. Or they could play Pro, but take merch instead of cash, maintaining their amateur status. They'd still qualify for AmWorlds, and have made something of a sacrifice to do so. (Yes, I know "Open Amateur" is a lousy division name, but that's keeping with tradition).
Obviously, I personally think this is all overkill, as the "problem" of high-rated Ams is a very minor one indeed.
paulw
Eagle Member
As long as players are providing the prizes they'll decide who they're playing against for the most part.
I'm a 970-rated player who plans to stay AM for life. No real reason to go pro unless I approach a rating of 1000, which I'll very likely never reach. For small local tournaments, I'll probably play Open trophy-only to save some green and compete with the best players. Other than that, I'm leaving the door open to compete in Am Worlds for the next 50 years!
I have no issues with 1000-rated players playing Am. People on this site seem to think there should be a new division for every 10-point increments of a players rating. What a joke. The Am field is supposed to be the biggest pool, regardless of the sport. Get a life, people.
I have no issues with 1000-rated players playing Am. People on this site seem to think there should be a new division for every 10-point increments of a players rating. What a joke. The Am field is supposed to be the biggest pool, regardless of the sport. Get a life, people.
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Halcón
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Spoken like a true bagger.
Halcón
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FWIW, there are only 5 players in the world who are listed as Amateur class that are rated above 990.
One of those 5 is our very own Austin Pfaff, who just won Am Worlds Jr division. I'd call him a bagger too, but he's just a kid. Plus, his three most recent events have been in MPO. (Besides Am Worlds)
One of those 5 is our very own Austin Pfaff, who just won Am Worlds Jr division. I'd call him a bagger too, but he's just a kid. Plus, his three most recent events have been in MPO. (Besides Am Worlds)
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The big question is, what does it really matter? We are throwing plastic objects at silly metal contraptions. There are far more pressing matters in the world to whine about.
I should mention that I did not read the ridiculous amount of 60 pages in this thread.
Please, by all means, carry on.
I should mention that I did not read the ridiculous amount of 60 pages in this thread.
Please, by all means, carry on.
Halcón
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If you were rated 940, traveled far from home, spent money to get there, and ended up playing a B-tier MA1 against jmhoekst (who for argument's sake was "approaching 1000" at that point)...it would matter to you.
I do agree that these are first world problems though.
livedoen4
Par Member
He'll probably turn down cash between now and next year and then take a shot at Advanced in the 2014 World's tournament. As good as he's shooting he could be over 1010 by then.
notroman
* Ace Member *
I'm sure everyone in the Advanced division was happy that Austin was playing Juniors.
