Am world BAGGERS

[The Hammer]

Exactly. How can we, as players is a competition, not be opposed to cheating, no matter how much a part of our "culture" it is?

True bagging does not follow this:

Agreed. Those of us that truly care about competition and the game owe it to our fellow golfers to speak up when we see something that we perceive as inappropriate.

 

[disc qualified]

I am aware of that and i hope you realize that "you" doesn't necessarily mean you personally, i'm speaking generally.

Listen, i've been playing tournaments for the better part of this century. I am very familiar with baggers, accusations of bagging and those who defend their so-called bagger ways. I just can't spend too much energy on it. I fully support those who advocate change, but my time and focus are better spent on other pursuits.

 

[Three Putt]

@3 Putt - Let's look at it from this perspective.

There is no difference between forcing a 1000 rated Adv player to move up to Open and compete than forcing a 900 rated Rec player to move up to Int. If it's okay to let one level of player stay and compete to win then it should be okay for everybody.

Nobody is forcing Open players to accept cash, they can move up to Open and play for plastic just like they were in Adv. So if you're saying it's unfair to force Adv players to move up and they should be allowed to stay and dominate a division where they clearly outclass a majority of that division then it should be the same for all divisions. 960 players should be allowed to play Int and always compete for the win. 920 players should be allowed to play Rec and always compete for the win.

Beyond the already admitted bull**** designations of Pro/Am what difference is there really between Adv/Open and Int/Adv? The money? Well like I said take the money out of it because you can play Open and accept fake money in lieu of actual cash.

A lot of you want to put us all on the same playing field so let's do it. Put a cut off rating at the top of Adv just like you're doing to other divisions. You can't say Adv is a top division and shouldn't have a cutoff while also saying there really is no difference between most pros and ams. There either is or isnt a difference.

I'm not sure why the PDGA does not force you up to Open other than the issue of money. Their might be an issue with young guys i.e. some states would consider you ineligible for high school sports because you competed as a "professional" whether you took the cash or not. It might also be the fact they are trying to promote the game as a Pro sport, so downgrading the pro division to something else would just go against what they were trying to accomplish. At any rate, that would be fine by me and would fix the problem to a certain extent.

The other side of the coin is a guy who is 965 rated, working toward Am World's. He practices hard and is working his butt off to win Am World's. He shoots some good spring rounds and what do you know? His rating goes up to 978. See ya, Am World's. I guess he should not have worked so hard. :|

 

[The Hammer]

I am aware of that and i hope you realize that "you" doesn't necessarily mean you personally, i'm speaking generally.

Listen, i've been playing tournaments for the better part of this century. I am very familiar with baggers, accusations of bagging and those who defend their so-called bagger ways. I just can't spend too much energy on it. I fully support those who advocate change, but my time and focus are better spent on other pursuits.

Gotcha. I respect that.

 

[The Hammer]

I'm not sure why the PDGA does not force you up to Open other than the issue of money. Their might be an issue with young guys i.e. some states would consider you ineligible for high school sports because you competed as a "professional" whether you took the cash or not. It might also be the fact they are trying to promote the game as a Pro sport, so downgrading the pro division to something else would just go against what they were trying to accomplish. At any rate, that would be fine by me and would fix the problem to a certain extent.

The other side of the coin is a guy who is 965 rated, working toward Am World's. He practices hard and is working his butt off to win Am World's. He shoots some good spring rounds and what do you know? His rating goes up to 978. See ya, Am World's. I guess he should not have worked so hard. :|

Maybe make it an annual thing? Player rises quickly and can play as an am for the rest of the year despite being above a set ratings cap. The next year if their rating is over set cap, the player must register as a pro member.

 

[Three Putt]

Maybe make it an annual thing? Player rises quickly and can play as an am for the rest of the year despite being above a set ratings cap. The next year if their rating is over set cap, the player must register as a pro member.

Oh, yeah. I betcha they would lose some guys there if they forced them into a more expensive membership. Otherwise it seems like it would work.

 

[bnbanbury]

So while I have the bagger police handy, let me ask a question. I am currently a 961 rated amateur. Please advise me on the rating at which I will no longer be able to play advanced without the weight of my shame dragging me down. Or should I already feel the shame burning inside me even as I type this?

 

[The Hammer]

Oh, yeah. I betcha they would lose some guys there if they forced them into a more expensive membership. Otherwise it seems like it would work.

I never understood why the pro membership is more expensive. What's the point?

 

[The Hammer]

So while I have the bagger police handy, let me ask a question. I am currently a 961 rated amateur. Please advise me on the rating at which I will no longer be able to play advanced without the weight of my shame dragging me down. Or should I already feel the shame burning inside me even as I type this?

I don't recall anyone bitching specifically about ratings. Who are you referring to as the ratings police?

 

[bnbanbury]

what other criteria are you using to determine it? wins? player ratings and bagging are intertwined

 

[The Hammer]

Wins and placing, mostly. When you win most of the events you enter, doesn't that tell you that you're skills place you in a higher division? I'm not just talking about one or two events, either.

 

[bnbanbury]

Cool. I rarely win. I am awash in relief.

 

[The Hammer]

Cool. I rarely win. I am awash in relief.

Lol. I'm sure you were going to lose sleep over it. All is well

 

[1978]

oh yea that Joseph guy needs to play pro in smaller tournaments...1 1 1 1 1 1 1 ...lol

 

[JTacoma03]

@3 Putt - Let's look at it from this perspective.

There is no difference between forcing a 1000 rated Adv player to move up to Open and compete than forcing a 900 rated Rec player to move up to Int. If it's okay to let one level of player stay and compete to win then it should be okay for everybody.

Nobody is forcing Open players to accept cash, they can move up to Open and play for plastic just like they were in Adv. So if you're saying it's unfair to force Adv players to move up and they should be allowed to stay and dominate a division where they clearly outclass a majority of that division then it should be the same for all divisions. 960 players should be allowed to play Int and always compete for the win. 920 players should be allowed to play Rec and always compete for the win.

Beyond the already admitted bull**** designations of Pro/Am what difference is there really between Adv/Open and Int/Adv? The money? Well like I said take the money out of it because you can play Open and accept fake money in lieu of actual cash.

A lot of you want to put us all on the same playing field so let's do it. Put a cut off rating at the top of Adv just like you're doing to other divisions. You can't say Adv is a top division and shouldn't have a cutoff while also saying there really is no difference between most pros and ams. There either is or isnt a difference.

Your conclusion doesn't follow your argument, and your analogy is apples to oranges.

960 players should not be allowed to play INT. AM2 and AM3 are ratings-protected divisions, AM1 and Open are not.

Nobody should be forced to move up to Open, if they want to be an amateur who cares if they "outclass everybody"? Again, it's not a ratings protected division, it's a division for people who do not want to pursue disc golf professionally. Remember, professionally does not mean touring, it means playing for money.

The problem is your argument, and the way many people look at it so not just you, is that AM1 is a ratings protected version of Open...which is NOT the case.

The logical conclusion to the argument you're positing is to do away with all ratings protected divisions if you want to level the playing field...which VOILA is what the AM Worlds tournament is...

 

[JC17393]

Wins and placing, mostly. When you win most of the events you enter, doesn't that tell you that you're skills place you in a higher division? I'm not just talking about one or two events, either.

What if you're winning or placing in most of your events because most of the players who should be in that division, ratings-wise, have already moved up?

I've known 940 players to "dominate" the Advanced division because there are no other players in the area rated over 915, but they all play Advanced anyway. Should that player move up due to lack of competition in his own division? Move up with the rest of the 930-950 donators in Open?

I think ratings have to play some role in this.

 

[kutz167]

Your conclusion doesn't follow your argument, and your analogy is apples to oranges.

960 players should not be allowed to play INT. AM2 and AM3 are ratings-protected divisions, AM1 and Open are not.

Nobody should be forced to move up to Open, if they want to be an amateur who cares if they "outclass everybody"? Again, it's not a ratings protected division, it's a division for people who do not want to pursue disc golf professionally. Remember, professionally does not mean touring, it means playing for money.

The problem is your argument, and the way many people look at it so not just you, is that AM1 is a ratings protected version of Open...which is NOT the case.

The logical conclusion to the argument you're positing is to do away with all ratings protected divisions if you want to level the playing field...which VOILA is what the AM Worlds tournament is...

I agree. The people on this website seem to have a tough time understanding the fact that ADV is not ratings protected. It has been stated many times that someone should not be forced to go pro. Sinced MA1 is not ratings protected, if you don't like someone beating you, improve your own game. As far as I'm concerned, it is not possible to be a bagger in AM1.

 

[The Hammer]

Why should 920 golfers be protected from 940 golfers, but 940 golfers not be protected from 1000 rated golfers?

 

[New013]

First of all that's not my argument, it's just a position I'm taking to prove a point about other peoples arguments. Secondly you're confusing the two concepts of how things are now and how they should theoretically be.

Others are saying it's not fair to push a small section in to a higher division because they can not compete at that higher level and the way the rules are set up they dont have to; while also pretty much agreeing the distinction of pro/am is bs and that playing for plastic isn't really diferent than playing for money and therefore Ams should not play for anything.

So if you are coming from that position, which many are, I'm just using the argument I posted above to prove how those two arguments don't mix. If there really isnt a difference between pro/am besides the money then all I'm saying is the same argument could be said for those who barely qualify to be the Adv and Int divisions.

Either Ams should play for nothing but glory and a shiny trophy and there should be no ratings cap on Adv; or Ams should continue to be able to play for merchandise and there should be a cap on the Adv division.

If that's to confusing for you to handle tough luck. I get Am Worlds is everybody in one Am field competing and I have zero problem with that. All I'm saying is there are people on here who seem to want things both ways and I don't think that makes a lot of sense.

 

[Three Putt]

Either Ams should play for nothing but glory and a shiny trophy and there should be no ratings cap on Adv; or Ams should continue to be able to play for merchandise and there should be a cap on the Adv division.

Why do you keep arguing with me if you agree with me?