[Vs.] Claymore, Truth, or Evidence?

[@iDiscGolf]

From my experience.

The Truth is a Roc3. Both not what your asking for.
The Mako is a Core. Both good understable neutral discs.
I've never thrown a claymore.
And the Evidence is like a broken in Truth. Straight flier without being "Flippy"

 

[TripleB]

Gator

My Roc is now flying perfectly straight for me...am I ready for a Gator to fill that overstable mid spot?

TripleB

 

[slowplastic]

My Roc is now flying perfectly straight for me...am I ready for a Gator to fill that overstable mid spot?

TripleB

When the Gator flies like your Roc used to then move to the Justice

 

[hugheshilton]

My Roc is now flying perfectly straight for me...am I ready for a Gator to fill that overstable mid spot?

TripleB

It depends on what you want. A (non-DX) Gator is a utility mid that will pretty much always be a short meat hook. If what you want is a mid that still goes almost as far as your other mids but flies more overstable then just buy a fresh Roc (max weight KC Pro should stay overstable for a while). If you want a meat hook that you can use to get out of trouble, throw into any headwind, throw short flex shots, skip shots, overheads, forehand rollers, etc., then you want something like a Gator.

 

[F. Howl]

Lose the Truth, forget about a Justice, and give the Buzzz another try.
Pair it with a Buzzz OS.

 

[elmexdela]

Lose the Truth, forget about a Justice, and give the Buzzz another try.
Pair it with a Buzzz OS.

another vote for give the buzz a try

its like trying to reinvent the wheel

 

[F. Howl]

another vote for give the buzz a try

its like trying to reinvent the wheel

When Eric McCabe joinded DD, they took a Buzzz (which he said was hands down the greatest mid ever made) and tried to reinvent the Wasp, by adding a dinky little bead on it. A profile somewhere between a Wasp and a Buzzz, but less consistent.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

In my experience the best straight mids with the least fade that feel good to me (beadless or close) are...
Claymore
Mako3
Tangent

I'm bagging the claymore for my no fade mid now but any of these could work.

 

[TripleB]

It depends on what you want. A (non-DX) Gator is a utility mid that will pretty much always be a short meat hook. If what you want is a mid that still goes almost as far as your other mids but flies more overstable then just buy a fresh Roc (max weight KC Pro should stay overstable for a while).

I want something (probably 0/2 or 0/3) that flies like a fresh Roc but doesn't go straight after very little break in time. Maybe a Champion Roc3 (although I wonder about the grip being too slick)?

I'm really loving my Lucid Truth (hated it to start with, my 10 year took it from me, decided to take it back, and it's become an amazing approach disc) so I thought about giving the EMAC Truth a try...getting it in DD's most overstable plastic - whatever that is?

Lose the Truth, forget about a Justice, and give the Buzzz another try.
Pair it with a Buzzz OS.

another vote for give the buzz a try

its like trying to reinvent the wheel

Every time I go out to the field to practice (depending on weather, up to 4 times a week) I take the Buzzz with me - it may be a mental thing now but I just cannot get a consistent release with this disc.

With my arm speed and the several local courses I play, I've pretty much got my bag set except for a disc like a fresh Roc.

I'll keep taking it with me though!

TripleB

 

[slowplastic]

I want something (probably 0/2 or 0/3) that flies like a fresh Roc but doesn't go straight after very little break in time. Maybe a Champion Roc3 (although I wonder about the grip being too slick)?

I'm really loving my Lucid Truth (hated it to start with, my 10 year took it from me, decided to take it back, and it's become an amazing approach disc) so I thought about giving the EMAC Truth a try...getting it in DD's most overstable plastic - whatever that is?

Try a Verdict. Similar feel/speed to the Truths, but it is the 0/2.5ish stability I would say. It's a bit power hungry as it's a fast mid, but it's not truly overstable like a Gator or something that wants to fade out of your hand. It's like an overstable Teebird but in the Truth speed. You can see how much more glide EMac gets out of it than Bobby, because Bobby isn't quite getting it up to speed with its overstability.

Just remember that whatever OS mid you get, will cost you distance over your straight mids. Going up in stability but in the same speed class will generally lose you distance, since the disc is wanting to fade to the ground much sooner.

The EMac Truth is really great, but it has more of a sweeping and light finish. It will end left to an extent, but I see it as more of a straight disc that can be allowed to go left. It kind of depends how far you throw your mids. At under 250' the Verdict might be too power hungry, so keep that in mind depending on how far you typically throw your mids.

 

[Putt for D'oh]

It's a bit power hungry as it's a fast mid,
...

The EMac Truth is really great, but it has more of a sweeping and light finish. It will end left to an extent, but I see it as more of a straight disc that can be allowed to go left. It kind of depends how far you throw your mids. At under 250' the Verdict might be too power hungry, so keep that in mind depending on how far you typically throw your mids.

I kinda think at lower arm speeds maybe a compass instead of a verdict?

The compass for me is the mid version of a Teebird. My Emacs all developed turn but held onto the fade ok. Verdict has kept a pretty decent fade, enough that if a regular Truth is fading I think that is way too slow an arm to get the verdict to fly stable not meathooky OS.

A fresh Lucid Compass will have fade and the ones i've had really stay straight and i think with a slower arm speed will continue to have some glide and reliable fade, you really have to power a seasoned one to get it to finish straight... like a Teebird.

Claymore? I've had two and they are totally different discs. There is a giant difference in PLH one is the Trilogy challenge one and was a nice glidey straight flyer but beat into lots of turn and little fade, I bought a new one that is super flippy so I just kinda gave up on them I have a bunch of Emacs, Truths and Compasses.

 

[slowplastic]

I kinda think at lower arm speeds maybe a compass instead of a verdict?

The compass for me is the mid version of a Teebird. My Emacs all developed turn but held onto the fade ok. Verdict has kept a pretty decent fade, enough that if a regular Truth is fading I think that is way too slow an arm to get the verdict to fly stable not meathooky OS.

A fresh Lucid Compass will have fade and the ones i've had really stay straight and i think with a slower arm speed will continue to have some glide and reliable fade, you really have to power a seasoned one to get it to finish straight... like a Teebird.

I agree with all of this...well aside from the Compass being a Teebird for me but I agree with how it flies.

Compass is a very good suggestion. It's like a beadless Roc type of flight, it is very HSS and wants to finish left a bit. It's not "overstable" but it's definitely very true flying and should not go right. It is a bit less glidey and less distance potential for slower arms than the Truth type of disc, but it is far easier to range and less squirrelly. For a placement midrange that should cover straight shots that don't go right, or hyzers, this is a great option. Whenever I've tried Compasses, they are not exciting discs to throw like the Truth with its turn tendencies and glide/speed, but very very predictable in comparison. Midranges are usually thrown for placement shots so this is a good thing in most cases.

 

[hugheshilton]

I want something (probably 0/2 or 0/3) that flies like a fresh Roc but doesn't go straight after very little break in time. Maybe a Champion Roc3 (although I wonder about the grip being too slick)?

I'm really loving my Lucid Truth (hated it to start with, my 10 year took it from me, decided to take it back, and it's become an amazing approach disc) so I thought about giving the EMAC Truth a try...getting it in DD's most overstable plastic - whatever that is?

Every time I go out to the field to practice (depending on weather, up to 4 times a week) I take the Buzzz with me - it may be a mental thing now but I just cannot get a consistent release with this disc.

With my arm speed and the several local courses I play, I've pretty much got my bag set except for a disc like a fresh Roc.

I'll keep taking it with me though!

TripleB

EMac Truths are nice; for me they flew a lot like a Roc but with the feel of a Truth (which feels like a beaded Buzzz) so that might work for you. Verdicts are significantly more overstable than a fresh Roc in my experience, especially for a newer player.

If you want to stay with something that feels and flies like a Roc but in more premium plastic that takes longer to beat up, you've got LOTS of options. You could get a Wasp, an Obex, a Vector, a Champion or Star Roc3, a Star Rancho Roc (they weren't in regular production for a while but appear to be again), a 30th Anniversary Luster San Marino Roc (still plentiful and they fly very nice), or even a Champion Rancho Roc (released every year as a USDGC fundraiser so they cost a bit more). Anyway, there have been loads of Roc clones in premium plastic made by other companies over the years so your options are legion in that regard.

 

[SD86]

I want something (probably 0/2 or 0/3) that flies like a fresh Roc but doesn't go straight after very little break in time. Maybe a Champion Roc3 (although I wonder about the grip being too slick)?
TripleB

I just tried the Star RocX3, and it might be just what you are looking for. The RocX3 was not as overstable as I thought it would be, but it's more overstable than Roc3, which might disappoint you in its lack of overstability. So give the RocX3 a shot.

 

[slowplastic]

I just tried the Star RocX3, and it might be just what you are looking for. The RocX3 was not as overstable as I thought it would be, but it's more overstable than Roc3, which might disappoint you in its lack of overstability. So give the RocX3 a shot.

I don't really know any Roc3 throwers anymore, but I've thrown some in the past that were as straight as I would expect. I've also thrown a couple that were very, very overstable. Like I probably throw them 40' shorter than I would expect to throw a Roc3. RocX3 is pretty overstable as well in my couple tries of one. I can throw a Verdict farther than it for sure, but I think the Verdict really gets more glidey once it's up to speed where I would imagine a RocX3 is pretty consistently overstable over a wider variety of velocities.

I still think the Compass is a pretty good bet from the handful of them I have thrown. I don't necessarily know if TripleB wants a true-OS disc, compared to a consistently HSS mid that will end left to an extent rather than starting to get stable halfway through the flight.

 

[elmexdela]

When Eric McCabe joinded DD, they took a Buzzz (which he said was hands down the greatest mid ever made) and tried to reinvent the Wasp, by adding a dinky little bead on it. A profile somewhere between a Wasp and a Buzzz, but less consistent.

mccabe should have never sold out and went to DD.

and then discraft would still be making those beautiful TI wasps in bright colors

the truth and emac truth never seemed like a superior disc to me than the buzz or wasp. some turn, some dont. i often try out my buddies who throw them and re-evaluate.. and every time its buzz/wasp.

if it aint broke dont fix it

 

[SD86]

I don't really know any Roc3 throwers anymore, but I've thrown some in the past that were as straight as I would expect. I've also thrown a couple that were very, very overstable. Like I probably throw them 40' shorter than I would expect to throw a Roc3. RocX3 is pretty overstable as well in my couple tries of one. I can throw a Verdict farther than it for sure, but I think the Verdict really gets more glidey once it's up to speed where I would imagine a RocX3 is pretty consistently overstable over a wider variety of velocities.

I still think the Compass is a pretty good bet from the handful of them I have thrown. I don't necessarily know if TripleB wants a true-OS disc, compared to a consistently HSS mid that will end left to an extent rather than starting to get stable halfway through the flight.

I might have one of those "less overstable" RocX3s, then. It goes straighter than I expected for longer than I expected. Definitely a reliable fade, but not as much as my Hornet's excellent glidey fade (by "glidey fade" I mean it doesnt dump, but glides to the earth as it fades).

Compasses are okay (I've tried Opto and GL), but seemed to just be a little shorter than the Roc3 and Buzzz. I haven't tried a Verdict yet.

 

[hugheshilton]

Verdicts are nice if you throw a traditional stable mid (like a Roc or Buzzz) and want your overstable mid to go just as far as your stable mid. Because the Verdict is a wider-rimmed, faster disc, if you give it a little more power, it goes further than a traditional overstable mid in my experience. Of course if you pair a Verdict with a Truth, the Truth might still go further since its similarly wide-rimmed and less overstable.

 

[PMantle]

My mids go Verdict/Truth(EMac)/Evidence, then Bard/Envy/Pure/Theory. Pretty much a two set approach to mids.

 

[TripleB]

My mids go Verdict/Truth(EMac)/Evidence, then Bard/Envy/Pure/Theory. Pretty much a two set approach to mids.

I kinda think at lower arm speeds maybe a compass instead of a verdict?

Try a Verdict.

For a "cheap as you can get" plastic from any company, the Innova DX is by far my favorite, but I can't stand any of the other plastics from Innova. From Trilogy I really don't like the Prime plastic (to me, it seems to get eaten up a bit faster than the DX), but love all of their other plastics that I've tried!

So I guess eventually, as I get better and am willing to spend a bit more money per disc (which may be sooner than I thought, got a surprise performance bonus at work yesterday :thmbup: ), I'll be looking to replace all my DX with discs from Trilogy.

Thanks to everyone for the help, input, links, advice, and patience!!!

TripleB