[Innova] Commander - New Midrange

[Moose33]

You may not be Paul McBeth, but 325 or more with a mid is plenty of power. Yours will not be mistaken for a "noodle" arm.

Probably not, I do hit around 400 with wraiths/Juns but I'm just saying I'm not a goofy powerful Simon/GG type and can still get some good turn out of it.

Did FH my Rask farther than Simon threw his P2 on the flying circus tour!...by 12ft.

But to be fair no one should be throwing a P2 415.

 

[pjhayes7]

But to be fair no one should be throwing a P2 415.

I agree, a 400 foot throw with a putter should be disallowed by the PDGA. In fact, here are the new throw limits:
D. Driver: 450
C. Driver: 400
F. Driver: 350
Mid: 315
Hybrid Putter: 300
Putter: 275

These limits would make this a much better sport. And by that I mean I would actually stand a chance in the higher divisions.

 

[hugheshilton]

I agree, a 400 foot throw with a putter should be disallowed by the PDGA. In fact, here are the new throw limits:
D. Driver: 450
C. Driver: 400
F. Driver: 350
Mid: 315
Hybrid Putter: 300
Putter: 275

These limits would make this a much better sport. And by that I mean I would actually stand a chance in the higher divisions.

Even if the guys in the higher divisions were limited to 450 foot throws, I don't think I would stand a chance there. Watching the recent video of McBeth playing the 2015 SoCal championships has definitely shown me that.

Anyway, back to the commander. I really hope this is released in a nice blend of DX. I'm sure it will probably be low on Innova's priorities as usual, but I'd love a nicely OS DX mid that starts out more OS than a DX Roc. That's somewhere I think their lineup falls sadly short (and the lineups of many other disc companies for that matter). If they ran it in that new Thunderbird DX blend, all the better.

 

[SD86]

Even if the guys in the higher divisions were limited to 450 foot throws, I don't think I would stand a chance there. Watching the recent video of McBeth playing the 2015 SoCal championships has definitely shown me that.

Anyway, back to the commander. I really hope this is released in a nice blend of DX. I'm sure it will probably be low on Innova's priorities as usual, but I'd love a nicely OS DX mid that starts out more OS than a DX Roc. That's somewhere I think their lineup falls sadly short (and the lineups of many other disc companies for that matter). If they ran it in that new Thunderbird DX blend, all the better.

I have no illusions about where not only myself but most people stand in relation to the top pros. I was watching the SoCal videos, and they're throwing 400+ feet with putters and mids like it's nothing. I don't even dream of throwing any disc 400 feet, much less harbor hope of doing what those young whippersnappers are doing. But that's okay.

I hope the Commander comes out in premium plastic (Star or Champion), though DX would be okay. I think this is Innova's reply to Prodigy's A1, and Innova needs a strongly OS mid, and I'd want one that was long lasting, certainly longer than DX. Flip side of that is I'd rarely throw it, so DX wouldn't get seasoned in TOO quickly in my bag...

 

[hugheshilton]

I have no illusions about where not only myself but most people stand in relation to the top pros. I was watching the SoCal videos, and they're throwing 400+ feet with putters and mids like it's nothing. I don't even dream of throwing any disc 400 feet, much less harbor hope of doing what those young whippersnappers are doing. But that's okay.

I hope the Commander comes out in premium plastic (Star or Champion), though DX would be okay. I think this is Innova's reply to Prodigy's A1, and Innova needs a strongly OS mid, and I'd want one that was long lasting, certainly longer than DX. Flip side of that is I'd rarely throw it, so DX wouldn't get seasoned in TOO quickly in my bag...

As far as the SoCal championship video, I was referring more to all the holes where they weren't throwing 400+ feet, but were throwing through little tiny tree windows, up and down hills, onto tiny islands, etc., and still parking the holes. Or when they weren't parking the holes, they would just make a 40 foot putt for the birdie anyway. Even without the longer holes, I wouldn't be anywhere close to competing on that level.

As far as DX is concerned, I'm just selfishly hoping for an Innova disc that will replace the D Drone I just put in for my winter bag setup in a little more durable baseline plastic than Pro D. Pro D seems even worse than DX for durability. As far as the Prodigy A1, I doubt this has anything to do with it. I doubt Prodigy puts much of a dent in Innova's sales, and Innova already has some great OS mid/approach discs like the Gator, Rhyno, and Pig that compete with the A1.

 

[SD86]

As far as the SoCal championship video, I was referring more to all the holes where they weren't throwing 400+ feet, but were throwing through little tiny tree windows, up and down hills, onto tiny islands, etc., and still parking the holes. Or when they weren't parking the holes, they would just make a 40 foot putt for the birdie anyway. Even without the longer holes, I wouldn't be anywhere close to competing on that level.

Totally agree. IMHO Paul McBeth is 4peat World Champ, USDGC champ and 2015 Grand Slam achiever because of his incredible putting. It's hard to gauge distances in videos sometimes, and I've never seen Paul McBeth in person but he looks to be rather short (5'6" to 5'8", I'm guessing?) or else the baskets are tall. Point being, McBeth makes putts with seeming ease from pretty good distances, sometimes through trees and brush, etc. I know he puts a ton of time and effort into his putting and it pays off, but IMHO that is where he elevates his game above the other pros.

I also was watching a women's DG event (maybe USWDGC) and Valarie Doss and one of the other pros were just zinging it between the trees with laser-like accuracy. Two other ladies, who are good but at that top level, were seemingly banging into every tree on the course. I definitely admire the abilities of these top pros.

As far as DX is concerned, I'm just selfishly hoping for an Innova disc that will replace the D Drone I just put in for my winter bag setup in a little more durable baseline plastic than Pro D. Pro D seems even worse than DX for durability. As far as the Prodigy A1, I doubt this has anything to do with it. I doubt Prodigy puts much of a dent in Innova's sales, and Innova already has some great OS mid/approach discs like the Gator, Rhyno, and Pig that compete with the A1.

My only experience with Pro-D plastic is a Challenger I bought at Academy Sports. Very firm plastic, and the disc itself was a really good putter. But after just two rounds, that pro-d plastic was absolutely chewed up from just the 36 holes into the chains, and only putting with it, not banging it off trees.

No, Prodigy is not going to put a dent into Innova's casual sales, but they still might bring out a response to the A1. It could be that pros using both Prodigy and Innova have gone to their companies and asked for discs in that arena. Either way, I'm curious about the Commander and what niche/role it will fill.

 

[cooter]

I myself am excited for the release of the Commander. Can't wait to see what it's all about. I carry 5 Roc3s and they cover about everything but I also bag one Gator and I would love to swap it out with a large diameter overstable mid. The Gator doesn't go much farther than my Rhynos but fills a niche. If this can push out almost as far as a Roc3 but truly overstable I'm in.

 

[mark996]

I'm 6 foot, standing next to McBeth he's about 2-3 inches shorter, Sexton is about the same height based on the pic I took with them at the Nick Hyde Memorial.

I'm hoping for a Pro plastic, or at least a Star release.

 

[pjhayes7]

If it was a putter I would say it would come out in XT, but since it is a mid, it will probably be Champ. But a pro plastic in the future would also be great. But mainly I hope it is true to the numbers and comes in Champ so it will stay at that stability.

 

[pjhayes7]

Don't be vtech, please, please don't be vtech. Who am I kidding, I will probably try it even if it is.

 

[SD86]

Don't be vtech, please, please don't be vtech. Who am I kidding, I will probably try it even if it is.

I'd be shocked if a disc meant to be overstable is in VTech... one of the advertised virtues of VTech is its straightness of flight and resistance to curving turns or fades. And for the most part that has been the case.

 

[PWaggoner]

Don't be vtech, please, please don't be vtech. Who am I kidding, I will probably try it even if it is.

I wish the same.

But who knows, v tech may make longer OS discs. Everybody wants that.

 

[pjhayes7]

I'd be shocked if a disc meant to be overstable is in VTech... one of the advertised virtues of VTech is its straightness of flight and resistance to curving turns or fades. And for the most part that has been the case.

Good to here. I held a few of the Vrocs at the local PIAS and just can't stand the way they feel. Very subtle actual difference in the feel, but just odd. I am sure if I used them a bit I would get used to it. Does a Mako have Vtech? Seems to be the same, but obviously the mold precedes the term Vtech.

 

[SD86]

Good to here. I held a few of the Vrocs at the local PIAS and just can't stand the way they feel. Very subtle actual difference in the feel, but just odd. I am sure if I used them a bit I would get used to it. Does a Mako have Vtech? Seems to be the same, but obviously the mold precedes the term Vtech.

No, the Mako/Mako3 is not VTech. VTech is the convex rim on the underside, and apparently the bead is part of it, too.

 

[armedola]

Flat-Top and Beadless...

I hope they are Beadless and Flat-Tpo.... I can't stand the bead, very uncomfortable in my finger... had to change my Rocs to L64 Pain... but would be nice to have an Beadless OS Flat-Top from Innova...fingers crossed!

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

I wish the same.

But who knows, v tech may make longer OS discs. Everybody wants that.

An OS disc is not supposed to be long...

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

I hope they are Beadless and Flat-Tpo.... I can't stand the bead, very uncomfortable in my finger... had to change my Rocs to L64 Pain... but would be nice to have an Beadless OS Flat-Top from Innova...fingers crossed!

You mean a Buzzz OS?
Innova won't even make a Buzzz copy, so chances are slim to none.

 

[THUGNIFICENT763]

No, the Mako/Mako3 is not VTech. VTech is the convex rim on the underside, and apparently the bead is part of it, too.

The bottom of the rim of the Mako3 was convex, I thought.

 

[Pbmercil]

The bottom of the rim of the Mako3 was convex, I thought.

It is.

 

[SD86]

The bottom of the rim of the Mako3 was convex, I thought.

As I look at my Star and Champ Mako3s, they look straight to me, not really rounded and convex like the V-Tech discs. Having said that, it's not concave by any stretch, and I can see where many would say it's convex. Feels pretty "full" in my gruppy paw as I grip it, as well. So the Mako3 is not VTech, but I won't debate it if it's "deemed" convex...