DFP Thumb Grip

[Tinkles]

Posted a link to the wrong picture....

This is the picture I meant to post:

In my normal grip, I have a more standard approach where the disc goes through the natural depression just below my thumb pad (thenar eminence) and I lock the disc in with my index finger hooked in and thumb creating somewhat of a pinch with the index. I don't have my thumb pad on the disc and the disc is held forward in the hand where the pressure is the index finger pushing the rim into the area between the index and middle finger knuckles - the nose down area we all learn about in grip basics.

I was trying out this new grip which was a very big change for me and looks more like the picture quoted above.

My observations of this grip:
• The grip naturally seemed to reduce wrist extension and range of motion on that side and I speculate that this is some of the benefit of this approach.
• The grip generally felt less firm to me in not having the comfort of that thumb index pinch.
• The grip definitely feels more like your palm is on top of the disc instead of beside it. I did not try to actively pronate my arm but think the natural palm down nature of the grip lends itself to a pronating finish. If you tried to roll under from this grip, I think you would hurt your elbow and/or shoulder. At least that is how it felt to me.
• The grip made me feel more like I was leveraging the rim – actively swinging it around at the hit – instead of feeling more like I was snapping my wrist into flexion while holding on tight.
• With this grip, it seemed very important to only adjust your angle (hyzer/flat/anhyzer) using a bending at the waste. If I got lazy and lowered my arm to throw a hyzer, the disc would slip out early and with no power. It seemed critical to keep the plane of your arm up high where as the natural pinching nature of my normal grip mitigated this mistake.
• The discs seemed to rise more during flight. I would think I thew it flat and too low and all the sudden the disc would rise and be a great shot.
• Normally I can easily feel when I really crush a disc (for me that means approaching 400' vs a 360' throw). While I could definitely tell when the disc slipped out early, I couldn't easily tell which throws were normal vs bombs as easily until I saw the result.

Lowlights:
• I was definitely less consistent with my distance.
• There were multiple occasions where the disc seemed to slip out though even then the disc would get 75% of what I expected even though it felt like it should have gone nowhere.
• There was a learning curve period for a few holes where I was pulling some throws and adding anhyzer by accident.
• I normally use a fork grip for putters and I trying to make a fork version of this grip led to more inconsistency with the release.

Highlights:
• While less consistent with distance I also had some absolute bombs for me.
• There is a 400' hole I play where I have made near a thousand throws because it is near the parking lot and wide open. It ends up being kind of a driving range hole. I get to this pin maybe 20% of the time (some days I can't get close, and others I'm there 75% of the time, you know how it is…). I've had a few really good throws hit maybe 420' but I'm usually more consistently in the 360-380' range. I threw a wraith 467' (measured with a rangefinder) almost all the way through the parking lot that goes on an angle long and right of the basket.
• There were a few other throws in the round like this where I threw an FD 360' and a PD about 380' both about 30' longer than normal good throws for me.
• On good throws the disc seemed to want to rise and find an extra gear during flight.

I'll definitely keep working with this grip.

TL/DR - While I was having some release inconsistency, I threw a wraith 467' so who cares about anything else.

 

[Malawi]

I throw in a update aswell since my last reply i actully went back to the basic powergrip having the disc in the middle crease with one pinch point. But now in the winter it has been really inconsistent so a week ago i decided to give the dfp grip a chance again and ye it works! Even better then before since my form has developed. My new gstar destroyer went from noseup 330 hyzers to a 420 flex bomb.

I think it gives more consistent releases and nosedown throws. More snap but it feels important how you grip it, if its sligthly off in your palm it can instead give alot of oat. It should be like in the posted picture above, i just wrap my finger pads around the rim then push the back up until it almost thouches the big thumb muscle. It should feels like your hand is more above the disc then on the side.

It could work just cus its winter now and cold outside, my longest drives has still been with the regular grip but not with the same consistenty like right now.

 

[FulaFirren]

What I've come to realize is that the grip isn't static, and it should probably just end up wherever it ends up. At the time when the "real" grip happens somewhere as the extension/swing/arm-pull happens from the pocket out it's really just about holding onto the rim/side of the disc and leveraging it out.

Changing your grip might make you move differently if you're consciously manipulating the disc from the reachback all the way to release, because you'll try to keep the disc aligned with its release angle the whole way through. For example, the dfp thumb grip is gonna "help" keep your elbow up because it's pretty much aligned with your palm pointing down towards the ground. With a Dfp you might end up doing sort of a karate chop. But I think you're going down the wrong path if you're even worrying about the disc position anytime before it's time to swing it out. In my experience, worrying about disc angle or trying to keep it on the same angle in space will just ruin the motion. The disc should just go wherever it goes as a result of the arm motion. Yeah, you should be conscious of the angle you want to release on and move accordingly, but the disc will not stay on that angle pretty much right until release.

And yes I also got worse feedback (as in feeling the weight/tug of the disc at the hit) and worse spin when forcing this grip. Even if it occasionally solved some nose up issues I was struggling with, the real solution is to find/understand the timing. I wrote my 2 cents in the free-floating arm movement thread about how I perceive the motion and the timing of it. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139128&page=15 It's a great topic for a thread because in my opinion it's as close as you can come to describing what the timing of the motion FEELS like. It's the same feeling for putting and forehands as well.

 

[seedlings]

Do discs need stiff flight plate plastic for the thumb push?

 

[drk_evns]

Do discs need stiff flight plate plastic for the thumb push?

Not necessarily. It feels weird to be able to push your thumb below your other fingers on a flexy/domey disc but you can still throw them.

 

[Tinkles]

So my results went away the next few days where I felt like I lost the magic. This seems to happen a lot with technique changes. I couldn't remember how this worked and I'm sure reverted to old habits.

Yesterday I was on Reddit and saw a thread talking about a 2018 round with Zach Arlinghaus and I though let's go see how a 100lb person throws 400'. There was a point in the round where his grip reminded me of this thread. Not necessarily thumb placement but just how this grip seems to hold the nose of the disc rather than the side and he held it more in his fingers rather than palm. He seems to have more of an Avery Jenkins approach where he presses down with the tip of his thumb. In any case it clicked for me and I was happy to get out today and try to reapply it. No 450+ throws but I was definitely throwing further than average and much more consistently appriaching or hitting 400 with wraiths which is rare air for me.

One thing I notice about this grip is I struggle to throw my putters. I don't know if this approach, or more likely some form issue, leads to more wobble on release or what, but my putters that normally fly straight or maintain a slight hyzer are flipping over. All my discs are flying slightly less stable but I'm thinking that is the extra 20' of distance. I do use more of a fork grip style for putters which doesn't seem to lend itself well for me.

 

[seedlings]

I tried and failed today on the 'horribly wrong' end of the spectrum. Extreme nose up. Rhatton mentioned that everything else in your form has to be kind of set in muscle memory before messing with this grip. I'm not there yet.

 

[sidewinder22]

Avery Jenkins approach where he presses down with the tip of his thumb.

I remember having good results with that grip, but had to stop using it as it hurt my thumb joints after awhile.

 

[gwsmallwood]

So yeah... I started experimenting with my grip out on the course today after seeing some videos where it looked like Philo Brathwaite has his thumb further into the flight plate.

This is exactly how I stumbled into this. I'm still struggling with backhand in general, but I just felt like my grip was a big contributor to the problem. I loved the way Philos throws seem so effortless and smooth, so I decided to try to emulate him a bit and see what happened. I wasn't focused on the push or the roll, mainly just getting my hand more on top of the disc.

The first time I tried this with putters in my back yard, just throwing like 85' upshots with a fan grip. My shots seemed more accurate, and I was getting those air bounces that I think are a result of really good spin on the disc.

I tried it again with my mids this weekend. I couldn't throw them quite as far as I can with the 3-finger grip that I had been using. But...the discs were more consistently following their prescribed flight patterns, which tells me that something about that grip was helping me to at least throw them nose-down with the proper speed and good release.

That was the first couple of times trying it. Now I can't really replicate any of it, but I suppose that's a part of learning.

 

[Malawi]

I tried and failed today on the 'horribly wrong' end of the spectrum. Extreme nose up. Rhatton mentioned that everything else in your form has to be kind of set in muscle memory before messing with this grip. I'm not there yet.

Thats intresting since for me this grip makes getting the nose down alot easier.
Played around with it alot this year tried diffrent things.

It seems that you have to pull through below your chest then having a high pull through at the nipples to get the nose down, for me it works alot better. It could be something with the elbow aswell since the feeling is kinda diffrent with this grip. Another thing is what sw mention before to throw more on a hyzer angle, bending at the waist. If i bend the same as with the regular grip most ppl use, angles are diffrent. Straight up body isnt flat release for me with this grip its more of a anny angle.

I think it also depends where it sits in your hand, and if you press with your thumb pad or thumb joint. I get bad results the bigger the gap is between my big thumb muscle and the plate, and getting the best the more i push the back of the disc up towards it but not all the way so they meet, a small gap there is perfect with great thumb pressure from the joint or pad. Kinda exactly what Dion Arlyn does in his old tip video, start by grip it where the fingers start then push it back up, you can see him push it up even more after he talked about it.

 

[seedlings]

Thats intresting since for me this grip makes getting the nose down alot easier.
Played around with it alot this year tried diffrent things.

It seems that you have to pull through below your chest then having a high pull through at the nipples to get the nose down, for me it works alot better. It could be something with the elbow aswell since the feeling is kinda diffrent with this grip. Another thing is what sw mention before to throw more on a hyzer angle, bending at the waist. If i bend the same as with the regular grip most ppl use, angles are diffrent. Straight up body isnt flat release for me with this grip its more of a anny angle.

I think it also depends where it sits in your hand, and if you press with your thumb pad or thumb joint. I get bad results the bigger the gap is between my big thumb muscle and the plate, and getting the best the more i push the back of the disc up towards it but not all the way so they meet, a small gap there is perfect with great thumb pressure from the joint or pad. Kinda exactly what Dion Arlyn does in his old tip video, start by grip it where the fingers start then push it back up, you can see him push it up even more after he talked about it.

I'm wanting to flip the disc upside down when I try intentional pronation at the hit, like the thumb flicking the quarter across the table. They say the disc will have already come out before actual pronation happens. There's clearly something I have wrong in my head.

 

[Malawi]

Watched some forms of retired pros like Jenkins and noticed that he has somewhat a similar grip like the deep thumb grip exept his thumb isnt towards the middle of the flight plate.

He says: I place the disc on the mid-line palm of my hand, wrapping fingers around the under side of the disc and positioning my thumb on the top of the ridge where the rim meets the top flight plate of the disc. The heel of my palm is raised off the top of the disc to reduce drag and to increase the speed of release.

Kinda similar to my dfp grip but in a extreme way, having it that low in the palm.
When gripping like that the nose is up and the angle is a bit anny. Tried this out today with same "reach back" height as i normally do and of course disc when nose up and turned way to the right. Then i remember seeing Jenkins reaching back above his nipple really high like Matt Orum, Wysocki and i did the same and woop disc went nose down 6 feet level to the ground with a great snap.

Anyone else tried this out? either this grip or a high reachback. Trying to figuering out how those 2 things are related and why it works aswell and how come it is reducing drag.

Here is a link to his grip tips if the photos didnt work.

http://www.averyjenkins.net/disc-golf-grips/

 

[sidewinder22]

I get more nose down with Avery's grip but it kills my thumb joint.

 

[Malawi]

I get more nose down with Avery's grip but it kills my thumb joint.

Yes il get that now after throwing alot lately.. had to switch back to a more regular grip, so disc is more on the side of the palm with abit of the big thumb muscle on the plate kinda in between a dfp grip. But then in some throws disc went into the ground and i had alot of unindeded anhyzer release.

While looking now in the mirror i can see that its because i dropping my elbow right before release and what the dfp grip does like someone else explained in this thread is that its impossible to drop the elbow with having my palm above the plate and thumb towards the middle. To me, just that trick makes a DFP grip worth it even having thumb pain ��.