DGN for 2022

[Shallows]

Please correct me if I've misheard/misremembered, but I believe Jeff Spring shared on the Upshot that 2021 was the first year that DGN ran a profit.

I think some people (not people on here but others) are underestimating the fact that the popularity of Jomez and post-production YouTube generally are due to a technological disruption that exists separate from the general rise of disc golf popularity. The general media landscape has been bleeding money for years and even live sports, the most valuable broadcast property there is, has begun to decline.

Putting aside the distracting culture war fingerpointing, the real decline in broadcast media is, as always, technological and financial, as fewer people own TVs and pay for cable, have stable living situations and employment, or interests outside social media. Into this void comes a product that is free, accessible on mobile devices and computers, and can be viewed at any time, even in 10 minute chunks between scrolling. A/V tech has improved to allow Jomez to produce this content about disc golf at a high quality and a reasonably low price, but DG isn't the only industry that has benefited from this technological shift, independent streaming of video game playing and pornography being the unfortunate obvious examples.

If Disc Golf is fully brought within a more traditional sports media format, be it ESPN or a paywalled DGN, it will surely suffer the similar fate of stagnation as traditional sports. Of course both options may be necessary for DGN to continue to turn a profit, and hopefully they're able to pull it off before the long delayed TV/Internet advertising bubble eventually bursts.

 

[DanJon]

Please correct me if I've misheard/misremembered, but I believe Jeff Spring shared on the Upshot that 2021 was the first year that DGN ran a profit.

I think some people (not people on here but others) are underestimating the fact that the popularity of Jomez and post-production YouTube generally are due to a technological disruption that exists separate from the general rise of disc golf popularity. The general media landscape has been bleeding money for years and even live sports, the most valuable broadcast property there is, has begun to decline.

Putting aside the distracting culture war fingerpointing, the real decline in broadcast media is, as always, technological and financial, as fewer people own TVs and pay for cable, have stable living situations and employment, or interests outside social media. Into this void comes a product that is free, accessible on mobile devices and computers, and can be viewed at any time, even in 10 minute chunks between scrolling. A/V tech has improved to allow Jomez to produce this content about disc golf at a high quality and a reasonably low price, but DG isn't the only industry that has benefited from this technological shift, independent streaming of video game playing and pornography being the unfortunate obvious examples.

If Disc Golf is fully brought within a more traditional sports media format, be it ESPN or a paywalled DGN, it will surely suffer the similar fate of stagnation as traditional sports. Of course both options may be necessary for DGN to continue to turn a profit, and hopefully they're able to pull it off before the long delayed TV/Internet advertising bubble eventually bursts.

I feel like you either work in Digital Marketing or are currently enrolled in a Digital Marketing class.

 

[dehaas]

Jomez has pushed the boundaries of what disc golf coverage and commentary can look like. The other production companies have done some good things, too -- GK in particular has some super talented camerapeople. DGN tries, but they don't seem to have the resources in house to really wrap their arms around what the viewing public wants -- to cultivate this garden that they have helped build.

Maybe someday the numbers will work out where DGN can make a godfather offer to the independent crews to bring all that talent in house and build a proper media company. But my completely uneducated guess is that they will sell out before then.

I agree with what you're saying, I could see how DGN might want to bring everybody in house and consolidate. The problem would be Jomez, it'd cost way to much to make that happen, and at that point DGPT has either sold off to a bigger fish or Jomez would just deal directly with said bigger fish.

Please correct me if I've misheard/misremembered, but I believe Jeff Spring shared on the Upshot that 2021 was the first year that DGN ran a profit.

I think some people (not people on here but others) are underestimating the fact that the popularity of Jomez and post-production YouTube generally are due to a technological disruption that exists separate from the general rise of disc golf popularity. The general media landscape has been bleeding money for years and even live sports, the most valuable broadcast property there is, has begun to decline.

Putting aside the distracting culture war fingerpointing, the real decline in broadcast media is, as always, technological and financial, as fewer people own TVs and pay for cable, have stable living situations and employment, or interests outside social media. Into this void comes a product that is free, accessible on mobile devices and computers, and can be viewed at any time, even in 10 minute chunks between scrolling. A/V tech has improved to allow Jomez to produce this content about disc golf at a high quality and a reasonably low price, but DG isn't the only industry that has benefited from this technological shift, independent streaming of video game playing and pornography being the unfortunate obvious examples.

If Disc Golf is fully brought within a more traditional sports media format, be it ESPN or a paywalled DGN, it will surely suffer the similar fate of stagnation as traditional sports. Of course both options may be necessary for DGN to continue to turn a profit, and hopefully they're able to pull it off before the long delayed TV/Internet advertising bubble eventually bursts.

Interesting point on the overall decline in live sports. Honestly since the various major pro sports all came back from their initial Covid freezes I can't say I've really gotten back into following any of them like I used to. If you go back in time 5 or 10 years ago getting dg on ESPN was what everybody thought needed to happen. Does it still have the same status now? I cut cable 2 years ago and get by with Prime, YouTube, HBO max, and the Disney, Hulu, and ESPN bundle. I can't say I actually use the ESPN app, it just tags along with Letterkenny and Star Wars.

 

[ToddL]

Please correct me if I've misheard/misremembered, but I believe Jeff Spring shared on the Upshot that 2021 was the first year that DGN ran a profit.

Projecting a profit in 2022. https://overcast.fm/+GpB4H0mA8/7:50

 

[Shallows]

Projecting a profit in 2022. https://overcast.fm/+GpB4H0mA8/7:50

Thank you, good catch! Curious to see if DGPT hit those projections, and curious how much of that amount is DGN subscriptions. 250k/year from Jomez has got to be a big help, especially if in prior years it was simply an in-kind relationship...

 

[wims]

JomezPro made disc golf. No JomezPro, no disc golf boom

 

[Three Putt]

JomezPro made disc golf. No JomezPro, no disc golf boom

Booms are weird and you can argue all day about what has caused the recent boom. I can tell you very clearly that JomezPro did NOT make disc golf; disc golf has been out here slowly building for decades. Jomez was in the right place at the right time to cash in on a sport that a lot of people spent decades building into something Jomez could profit off of. If Jomez went away tomorrow, I'd still be playing disc golf. Just like I have for the last 30 years. I don't owe Jomez anything.

 

[wims]

Booms are weird and you can argue all day about what has caused the recent boom. I can tell you very clearly that JomezPro did NOT make disc golf; disc golf has been out here slowly building for decades. Jomez was in the right place at the right time to cash in on a sport that a lot of people spent decades building into something Jomez could profit off of. If Jomez went away tomorrow, I'd still be playing disc golf. Just like I have for the last 30 years. I don't owe Jomez anything.

I'm obviously talking about the recent surge in popularity. BTW, Jomez is no spring chicken, they have been producing disc golf content for a decade

 

[Three Putt]

I'm obviously talking about the recent surge in popularity. BTW, Jomez is no spring chicken, they have been producing disc golf content for a decade

We shall see how the "surge in popularity" goes. Disc golf stuck for a high % of people before because it was an experience; disc golf was something you did. The experience, the disc in flight, the sound of the chains, the social connections to the other weirdos throwing Frisbees at trees in the park...it sort of sucks you in.

The Jomez thing is a fundamental shift from disc golf as something you do to disc golf as something you watch. They are not producing the content you are watching. They are not TDing events and recording them. Somebody else is coming up with the events, securing payouts, preparing venues, etc. Jomez is dependent on somebody to do the heaving lifting so that they have content for the eyes.

Those eyes then have to translate into people who show up and play, and if they do or do not continue to play will probably decide if they continue to watch. It's a symbiotic relationship where the people volunteering to provide the experience on a local level still play a pivotal role; Jomez can lead people to you, but you have to seal the deal on the local level.

Writing all that off and giving Jomez all the credit like they are magically making all this happen by themselves gives them waaayyy too much credit.

 

[Jolt]

Hmm i only get Host error, i can´t get to the DGN site, , worked fine a few hours ago

But it looks like R1 FPO is free on Youtube

 

[robdeforge]

Hmm i only get Host error, i can´t get to the DGN site, , worked fine a few hours ago

But it looks like R1 FPO is free on Youtube

I was just about to sign for a month to watch lol. Thanks for pointing out it's on YouTube

 

[txmxer]

We shall see how the "surge in popularity" goes. Disc golf stuck for a high % of people before because it was an experience; disc golf was something you did. The experience, the disc in flight, the sound of the chains, the social connections to the other weirdos throwing Frisbees at trees in the park...it sort of sucks you in.

The Jomez thing is a fundamental shift from disc golf as something you do to disc golf as something you watch. They are not producing the content you are watching. They are not TDing events and recording them. Somebody else is coming up with the events, securing payouts, preparing venues, etc. Jomez is dependent on somebody to do the heaving lifting so that they have content for the eyes.

Those eyes then have to translate into people who show up and play, and if they do or do not continue to play will probably decide if they continue to watch. It's a symbiotic relationship where the people volunteering to provide the experience on a local level still play a pivotal role; Jomez can lead people to you, but you have to seal the deal on the local level.

Writing all that off and giving Jomez all the credit like they are magically making all this happen by themselves gives them waaayyy too much credit.

Not disagreeing with your point--Jomez will be part of the "story" of how disc golf got to its current/future status. An important part of the history, but DG would still be something whether Jonathan starts filming or not, just the path would be somewhat different.

 

[Ahildy13]

I was just about to sign for a month to watch lol. Thanks for pointing out it's on YouTube

Oh thank goodness that they created their own platform, it works so well for them!
:doh:

 

[robdeforge]

Oh thank goodness that they created their own platform, it works so well for them!
:doh:

seems like it may have been a Vimeo issue, not specifically DNG: https://downdetector.com/status/vimeo/

 

[ru4por]

JomezPro made disc golf. No JomezPro, no disc golf boom

I just don't see where this make much sense. You are of the opinion that JomezPro is putting out videos that are being seen by non disc golfers, encouraging them to buy discs and hit their local courses?

I suggest many, many new golfers were pushed to pursue outdoor activities as COVID seriously restricted the options of indoor activities. I feel confident that many outdoor games and sports have also seen booms in participation.

I just don't see tournament videos being picked up by non players. I am sure the truth is probably in-between our takes.

JomezPro is about the Professional part of the game, the boom in disc golf is an amateur/family expansion.

 

[ru4por]

seems like it may have been a Vimeo issue, not specifically DNG: https://downdetector.com/status/vimeo/

Certainly could be. I did try to register for my free PDGA membership package and could not get to the DGN website, from the PDGA link.

 

[txmxer]

I just don't see where this make much sense. You are of the opinion that JomezPro is putting out videos that are being seen by non disc golfers, encouraging them to buy discs and hit their local courses?

I suggest many, many new golfers were pushed to pursue outdoor activities as COVID seriously restricted the options of indoor activities. I feel confident that many outdoor games and sports have also seen booms in participation.

I just don't see tournament videos being picked up by non players. I am sure the truth is probably in-between our takes.

JomezPro is about the Professional part of the game, the boom in disc golf is an amateur/family expansion.

I started right before COVID blew up because friends invited me out. The week after the COVID shutdown started. I was totally hooked on playing AND watching/learning as much as I could. The instructional videos as well as the Jomez type videos were great.

While you guys were in long before the current surge, the videos have been a part of what's pulled in people and helped grow the enthusiasm. You can't separate the two.

 

[Ahildy13]

I just don't see where this make much sense. You are of the opinion that JomezPro is putting out videos that are being seen by non disc golfers, encouraging them to buy discs and hit their local courses?

I suggest many, many new golfers were pushed to pursue outdoor activities as COVID seriously restricted the options of indoor activities. I feel confident that many outdoor games and sports have also seen booms in participation.

I just don't see tournament videos being picked up by non players. I am sure the truth is probably in-between our takes.

JomezPro is about the Professional part of the game, the boom in disc golf is an amateur/family expansion.

I would not have started playing if I didn't pick up on Jomez videos that popped up on Youtube while I was watching F1 and Rally racing. I have no idea how the algorithm decided I would like disc golf, but it was right.

Jomez is not only about the professional part of the game, they are about creating entertainment.

 

[Three Putt]

I started right before COVID blew up because friends invited me out. The week after the COVID shutdown started. I was totally hooked on playing AND watching/learning as much as I could. The instructional videos as well as the Jomez type videos were great.

While you guys were in long before the current surge, the videos have been a part of what's pulled in people and helped grow the enthusiasm. You can't separate the two.

No, but you can't single out one factor as what is creating the enthusiasm and ignore all the other factors, either. The Jomez fanboys seem to forget everything else in play.

The effect that YouTube could have on disc golf was evident long before Jomez. The Cubby videos drove disc golf engagement for a while there and spawned a host of imitation ace videos that were bringing people out to the course. It was pretty evident then that if low-quality ace videos could engage people that better content could have a big impact. DiscGolfPlanet.tv tried to be the breakthrough, but it wasn't time. DGPT hadn't started yet, the content wasn't there.

This boom we have now is the intersection of quality video content, DGPT receiving a huge investment boost from new ownership, a sport that had built up a base slowly over 40 years and establish a wide net of courses, and a pandemic upending people's lives and leaving them open to try something new. That doesn't even figure in what the disc manufacturers are doing, there is a retail side to being ready to fill our hands with equipment. Plus...none of this can happen before the Internet. There are a bunch of moving parts to what is happening now. Jomez is one of the parts.

 

[dehaas]

I agree that indoor activity being restricted had people outside looking for something to do.

They also had a lot of downtime to watch YouTube content when they weren't out playing. It's amazing how stuff starts trickling into your feeds after a couple of google searches.

I don't think it's fair to say Jomez made dg, but at a time when there were no tournaments being played and a lot of new eyes on the sport and a lot of indoor downtime I think they contributed as much as anybody else to the explosive growth.

Side note: saw that the DGN app wasn't working so the feed was on YouTube for free. I've got it fired up as background noise, but Ian and Elaine King are a pretty good commentary pairing. So far it looks like the FPO action is packed pretty tight, let's hope it stays that way the next few days.