DGPT: 2020 The Preserve Championship July 3-5

[oldmandiscer]

Yes. But the 750' open par 4 is so awfully short that the "scoring average" will be a half-stroke below par, primarily for the biggest arms. And even an average arm gets the birdie most of the time if he can putt. I am an old man and can throw 375 accurately most of the time. Those (holes) are the problems. As Eagle McMahon did (twice I recall) he can make two BAD throws and still get the birdie because his bad throws were really really far.

Better then the current 667 distance though (number 1 and 11) (700 on 15 I believe). If you want to talk about short. Is 800 feet better? Maybe, or 775. A decent 400 foot drive and birdie is no gimme (for the shorter pro). Even a 500 foot bomb leaves 300 in.

We agree that 667 is too short, more like a tweener hole almost considering 100 foot wide fairways.

 

[_MTL_]

Distance is more rewarded in the woods than in the open.

The ability to throw a putter on a 330 foot tight hole or a mid on a 400 foot tight hole is a major advantage.

On 450 foot wide open holes these big arms can throw hyzers, which is an advantage, but someone with 450 D can still birdie with an full flex shot.

I'd much rather play against a distance bomber on a 450 foot wide open hole than a 400 foot wooded hole where I'm having to throw my distance driver perfect (And shape it in lines I'm not likely comfortable with) compared to their mid all day long.

 

[Jolt]

From Simons Instagram

" .......I loved the course. I wish we had more courses like this. Good shots will have good results. Bad shots will have bad results. I think this was the most fair course we've ever played on tour. No gimmicks. No holes you can blow the whole tournament on. 4 way tie for the lead before the last hole. Top 10 all within striking distance. How doesn't everyone see that this is what disc golf could be? The amount of lucky and unlucky things I see each and every week on all the other courses we play is ridiculous. Last weekend I barely saw any luck or bad luck. I saw skill and I saw mistakes......."

 

[robdeforge]

Yes but that time limit can't start until it is "clear and free from distractions" and that determination is at the sole discretion of the player who is about to throw/putt

all of your hypotheticals do nothing to address what nikko did.

he stood at his lie, disc in hand, and pump faked for 30+ seconds multiple times. if you'd like to discuss other excessive time situations there's a rules forum, but what you're describing and what nikko did are not one and the same.

 

[biscoe]

all of your hypotheticals do nothing to address what nikko did.

he stood at his lie, disc in hand, and pump faked for 30+ seconds multiple times. if you'd like to discuss other excessive time situations there's a rules forum, but what you're describing and what nikko did are not one and the same.

Perhaps he finds his own routine distracting... or a voice in his head... or thoughts of a delicious pizza he had months ago... without a definition of what can or cannot be a distraction there is no way to say otherwise.

 

[biscoe]

article on shot clock in golf from a couple years ago

I am starting to think i would prefer something like this- hard shot clock with a couple of variances a round for extreme situations.

 

[Guurn]

The main thing I found disappointing during this tournament is that we didn't get to see a video of Simon playing BRP for the first time.

 

[Steve West]

article on shot clock in golf from a couple years ago

I am starting to think i would prefer something like this- hard shot clock with a couple of variances a round for extreme situations.

When would you start the clock?

 

[ChrisWoj]

From Simons Instagram

" .......I loved the course. I wish we had more courses like this. Good shots will have good results. Bad shots will have bad results. I think this was the most fair course we've ever played on tour. No gimmicks. No holes you can blow the whole tournament on. 4 way tie for the lead before the last hole. Top 10 all within striking distance. How doesn't everyone see that this is what disc golf could be? The amount of lucky and unlucky things I see each and every week on all the other courses we play is ridiculous. Last weekend I barely saw any luck or bad luck. I saw skill and I saw mistakes......."

Is anyone shocked that Simon enjoyed an old school birdie race? I wonder how often Simon goes for one of his big shots for the crowd and considers the bad break he got pushing the boundaries of his skills to put on a show 'bad luck'?

I really like Simon, enjoy watching him golf, enjoy his vlogs. But... *shrug*

 

[Sethamphetamine]

The main thing I found disappointing during this tournament is that we didn't get to see a video of Simon playing BRP for the first time.

I saw their group that day and they definitely had the camera going.

 

[Rastnav]

Is anyone shocked that Simon enjoyed an old school birdie race? I wonder how often Simon goes for one of his big shots for the crowd and considers the bad break he got pushing the boundaries of his skills to put on a show 'bad luck'?

I really like Simon, enjoy watching him golf, enjoy his vlogs. But... *shrug*

The consensus on commentary seemed to be that Simon played very smart golf all throughout. I can't think of an example of him going for a big shot that really cost him. Maybe the one OB that he made the miraculous par on day 2.

Theoretically, you could say the difference between a playoff and not was his missed near tap-in eagle putt on 18 on day 2. Certainly the fact that he didn't eagle that hole 3 days in a row has to be considered his biggest disappointment, and that could have won him the tournament.

 

[araytx]

Better then the current 667 distance though (number 1 and 11) (700 on 15 I believe). If you want to talk about short. Is 800 feet better? Maybe, or 775. A decent 400 foot drive and birdie is no gimme (for the shorter pro). Even a 500 foot bomb leaves 300 in.

We agree that 667 is too short, more like a tweener hole almost considering 100 foot wide fairways.

But did you see my original point? Lengthening these holes only exacerbates the big arm advantage. I don't think 775 or 800' is better. I think making more long par 3's would be better. Did you see hoole 18? Nikko, furthest out after the tee shots is still able to get it into the circle in 2. 900-footer. Holes 1 and/or 11 in the 480 - 525' range as par 3's is better imho. Not a "gimme" for big arms, but allows them the chance to air it out for a deuce look.

 

[araytx]

From Simons Instagram

" .......I loved the course. I wish we had more courses like this. Good shots will have good results. Bad shots will have bad results. I think this was the most fair course we've ever played on tour. No gimmicks. No holes you can blow the whole tournament on. 4 way tie for the lead before the last hole. Top 10 all within striking distance. How doesn't everyone see that this is what disc golf could be? The amount of lucky and unlucky things I see each and every week on all the other courses we play is ridiculous. Last weekend I barely saw any luck or bad luck. I saw skill and I saw mistakes......."

I disagree with one claim Simon made -- that good shots were rewarded and bad shots punished. The second part, "bad shots punished: is hogwash. I SAW Eagle make not one, but TWO bad shots on a hole and still get the birdie. (and before you ask, I'll need time to go back and find it on the video -- I'm at work now.) That is a problem with courses designed like this.

 

[cheesethin]

source?

Good question, it's made me go back and check my assumptions. On thinking further I think actually it's not even down to the full card - the responsibility for defining what constitutes distracting rests with the players calling the violation.

With rules that require two people to call them, it is only the opinion and the judgement of those two people making the call that matters - for the violation to stand, and be recorded against the offending player. (The penalised player can of course appeal any call to the TD, but that is not what we're talking about here.)

It only takes two players to be of the opinion that you stepped on your mini when throwing, for a stance violation to be called against you. While you can of course argue your case, and the other players should allow you to be heard - the penalty call is solely based on the judgement of the two people making the call against you.

If you get called for a falling putt - you don't suddenly get to define what constitutes 'demonstrating balance'. That rests with the calling players.

The excessive time rule requires 2 players to call it (1 for the initial warning). So it is in the judgement of the two calling players as to whether the conditions have been met and whether you've taken over 30s. Why would the offending player suddenly have the right to define what constitutes clear and free of distractions?

I acknowledge that what one player finds distracting another player might not, and therefore the calling players should allow for variation between people. Much the same as 'reasonable time to arrive at and determine the lie' will vary between players based on how fast they are able to walk. But that variation between people doesn't hand over the full responsibility and right to determine what constitutes distracting to the individual player.

TLR Our rules give the right to exercise judgement and make calls - to the players making the call.

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[cheesethin]

source?

Your turn now - what's your source.

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[ChrisWoj]

The consensus on commentary seemed to be that Simon played very smart golf all throughout. I can't think of an example of him going for a big shot that really cost him. Maybe the one OB that he made the miraculous par on day 2.

I don't think things were set up out there for him to do much ridiculous stuff. I'm referring to the way he both talks about playing (being unable to resist putting on a show for the people) and the way he talks about other courses being "unlucky."

 

[Streets]

From Simons Instagram

" .......I loved the course. I wish we had more courses like this. Good shots will have good results. Bad shots will have bad results. I think this was the most fair course we've ever played on tour. No gimmicks. No holes you can blow the whole tournament on. 4 way tie for the lead before the last hole. Top 10 all within striking distance. How doesn't everyone see that this is what disc golf could be? The amount of lucky and unlucky things I see each and every week on all the other courses we play is ridiculous. Last weekend I barely saw any luck or bad luck. I saw skill and I saw mistakes......."

Breaking News: Simon Praises a Course that Plays to his Strengths. Also, the sky continues to be blue. More at 11.

 

[Steve West]

But did you see my original point? Lengthening these holes only exacerbates the big arm advantage. ...

Not always. The hole with the least scoring spread was hole 5, the longest hole. Players of all sized arms got a lot of 4s.

 

[Steve West]

I disagree with one claim Simon made -- that good shots were rewarded and bad shots punished. The second part, "bad shots punished: is hogwash. I SAW Eagle make not one, but TWO bad shots on a hole and still get the birdie. (and before you ask, I'll need time to go back and find it on the video -- I'm at work now.) That is a problem with courses designed like this.

When watching the lead card, how many actually bad throws will we see? Not many. If we saw fewer throws punished on this course it might be because we are accustomed to seeing almost-bad, or merely unlucky, throws severely punished on other courses.

As for whether Eagle was punished: saying he still got a birdie is not the whole story. We all know some pars on this course were soft (especially #18). The question is: Did those two bad throws reduce his chance of winning? Perhaps he would have gotten an eagle if one of them had not been bad. That's punishment.

 

[BillFleming]

Uh, no. Steve, you missed that I was trying to show Bill F that I was contradicting his statement that the wind gauging time shouldn't count against the 30 seconds.

ah, then you misread/misunderstood my post. I was pointing out that testing the wind DOES count against the 30 seconds. It isn't part of determining the lie.