Micah511
Bogey Member
I really hope that "Jomez Tour" happens, except that it is a CCDG/Jomez joint venture.I don't know much about Steve Dodge, but the little I do know makes me dislike him.
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DGPT Drops New Media Outlook for 2019
- Thread starter hellbound
- Start date
Oh yeah, I wasn't even thinking about the signal for live. Just worried about a further move to more open courses like tourneys on ball golf courses. I know I've heard you and Cory complain about the difficulties in getting video on some wooded holes. Maybe complain isn't the right word. I have to admit I've stopped watching coverage of rounds on ball golf courses.
Anyway, I've wondered for some time why filming stands haven't been built for you guys at some of the bigger tournaments. Seems obvious to me. I love that directly from behind the tee view that we sometimes get. The less a camera has to swing around the better. I hope you guys will soon get things like that regularly.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2016
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- 1,812
Substitute Waco then.
Royalhghnss
Double Eagle Member
I'm actually on record saying filming in the woods is easier than open ball golf courses. Sky annys, and crazy high hyzers are the hardest shots to film. Those happen way more on ball golf courses. Plus when they're throwing in the woods I know exactly where the disc should be, in the tunnel.
Given the option between a ball golf tourney, and a wooded one, I'm picking the wooded one 100 out of 100 times. That's real disc golf. This should actually lead to more wooded golf, and less ball golf courses being on CCDG.
broomerang
Double Eagle Member
#IAN2020
turbosteve
Eagle Member
Do you think you would come to Charlotte to film the Carolina Clash? I would love to see footage of the pros playing Charlotte style wooded courses.
No obligation to the sport or fan? I don't think being divisive toward a fan base has ever been a good thing. I think the 2018 Miami Marlins are a great recent showing of that not working out so well.
If he wants to create a divide and die on that cross, go for it. But he's making a mistake if he goes against fans and the titans of media.
I see your point, that he helped facilitate the media's growth. He consolidated already large tourneys under one roof. He provided another nice tidy schedule most pros, media, and fans could follow.
But would the media have grown without him? The tournaments under his roof were already large tournaments with lots of the big names already attending. Most were tourneys that were already being filmed, he just put them under the DGPT. So I think the media played a bigger role for his growth. Because without them, his DGPT could have easily died out in it's infancy.
They helped each other grow. If one didn't have the other who know how they'd have grown. But from my perspective, his power was built on the backs of those he's throwing to the curb.
Great to hear! I've really enjoyed a lot of the wooded rounds CCDG has put out recently. Keep up the great work!
Royalhghnss
Double Eagle Member
I haven't listened to the smashboxx interview yet, but to me this is reminiscent of the scheduling arguments in the first year of the DGPT. Steve ran the first year of the PT and then threw a hissy fit that the PDGA didn't invite him into the scheduling meetings to schedule the PT in conjunction with the NT. He had a bit of a point, but it seemed he was a bit ahead of himself. He ran a moderately successful tour for one year and then insisted that his opinion be worth more than anyone else's.
From reading this thread, I again think he probably has a bit of a point, but I wonder what's the right way to solve it. Maybe the DGPT would be better off having all video branded and published specifically by the DGPT instead of a mishmash of different channels. Maybe the DGPT could save a little money by doing more work with their already existing staff instead of contracting out and having to pay for transportation costs for several new people every weekend. But is getting rid of Jomez/CCDG/Smash going to help or hurt? Maybe the community will revolt and refuse to watch. Maybe the community is so starved for anything Pro DG that they'll watch no matter who's publishing.
I think my biggest hope is that Steve doesn't do the commentary himself. I like the guy, but I hate his commentary.
From reading this thread, I again think he probably has a bit of a point, but I wonder what's the right way to solve it. Maybe the DGPT would be better off having all video branded and published specifically by the DGPT instead of a mishmash of different channels. Maybe the DGPT could save a little money by doing more work with their already existing staff instead of contracting out and having to pay for transportation costs for several new people every weekend. But is getting rid of Jomez/CCDG/Smash going to help or hurt? Maybe the community will revolt and refuse to watch. Maybe the community is so starved for anything Pro DG that they'll watch no matter who's publishing.
I think my biggest hope is that Steve doesn't do the commentary himself. I like the guy, but I hate his commentary.
Poor decision on Steve Dodge's part. But are you really surprised?
Steve Dodge = Snake Oil Salesman
Wanted to grow Vibram -- no longer making discs
Wanted to improve Maple Hill and let go the Course Manger -- course looks like crap compared to many of the other courses on DGPT.
No midas touch for this Oompaloompa. Growing the sport means only one thing for him = $$$$. He is betting that all us slumps will just watch his crappy live video and listen to his annoying voice. Hell no!
Steve Dodge = Snake Oil Salesman
Wanted to grow Vibram -- no longer making discs
Wanted to improve Maple Hill and let go the Course Manger -- course looks like crap compared to many of the other courses on DGPT.
No midas touch for this Oompaloompa. Growing the sport means only one thing for him = $$$$. He is betting that all us slumps will just watch his crappy live video and listen to his annoying voice. Hell no!
I sort of talked about this on the podcast, but I'll say it here too. There's a very important nuance that we have to protect from getting lost in the shuffle.
When Steve outsourced the DGPT media in year 1, it was to save costs. Jussi did the opposite with the DGWT, because he was trying to think long term about the things that Steve is now considering.
When Steve outsourced the media, the crews (Ian can attest to this) had to find a way to stay financially viable. Lo and behold, manufacturers gave them a hand to sell merch, and Patreon became a great solution.
Now again contrast this with Jussi's approach with the DGWT. He paid Jomez straight up to be there. He incurred all of the costs of that media to his tour, in return for owning the content and distribution...but he also hyped the collaborating brands.
Steve has made all of us foot the tab for DGPT media, AND turned around to sell us trading cards (silicon pint cups, etc.), AND now says, "Hey - when you media crews were resourceful and got your money elsewhere, you were actually getting money that I deserve since I manage the tour."
There's a HUGE disconnect in logic there. Especially given that the DGPT relies on LOC's the same way the PDGA does. The local TD takes the risk to run the tournament at a profit (and pays a cut back to Steve, plus a sanctioning fee), the media group takes the risk with their gear + IP + time, but Steve's logic is that he deserves a bigger cut of the money while assuming a smaller % of the risk.
If a TD or media group doesn't hold up their end of the bargain, Steve can cut them. What happens when it's the other way around?
When Steve outsourced the DGPT media in year 1, it was to save costs. Jussi did the opposite with the DGWT, because he was trying to think long term about the things that Steve is now considering.
When Steve outsourced the media, the crews (Ian can attest to this) had to find a way to stay financially viable. Lo and behold, manufacturers gave them a hand to sell merch, and Patreon became a great solution.
Now again contrast this with Jussi's approach with the DGWT. He paid Jomez straight up to be there. He incurred all of the costs of that media to his tour, in return for owning the content and distribution...but he also hyped the collaborating brands.
Steve has made all of us foot the tab for DGPT media, AND turned around to sell us trading cards (silicon pint cups, etc.), AND now says, "Hey - when you media crews were resourceful and got your money elsewhere, you were actually getting money that I deserve since I manage the tour."
There's a HUGE disconnect in logic there. Especially given that the DGPT relies on LOC's the same way the PDGA does. The local TD takes the risk to run the tournament at a profit (and pays a cut back to Steve, plus a sanctioning fee), the media group takes the risk with their gear + IP + time, but Steve's logic is that he deserves a bigger cut of the money while assuming a smaller % of the risk.
If a TD or media group doesn't hold up their end of the bargain, Steve can cut them. What happens when it's the other way around?
I am just not sure that Dodge, or any business has some responsibility to a greater good, than profits. This is a fan misnomer in all sports.....NHL, NFL, MLB..... that the owner has a responsibility, to the fans, to put a superior product on the field. Of course, doing so generally results in larger profits, but that is not always true. Maximizing profits can be done at the expense of the sport, to a degree, especially short term.
**Please realize I am a Detroit Lions fan.
We would all like to believe that Dodge has only the health of the entire game as his goal, but that is disingenuous, isn't it? I mean, he is really only interested in the pros to begin with....where the money is.
broomerang
Double Eagle Member
That's an unfair assessment and an untrue version of the facts.
Steve left Vibram to pursue the DGPT. Without Steve there, Vibram decided against continuing the business. Poor sales numbers made it an easy decision for them without a leader to continue in Steve's wake.
We don't know more than that about him leaving Vibram.
I don't agree with this choice. I love Jomez and CCDG. I have enjoyed Smashboxx for a long time as well. The organic growth of media coverage for Disc Golf has been amazing and the fans owe A LOT to those folks.
As a byproduct Steve and the DGPT owe a lot to those folks. They need the fans too. This will go down as a mistake in my opinion.
If you like CCDG, Jomez, Smashboxx, and all the other great channels making content for you to watch FOR FREE, then support them!
Now let's watch some Disc Golf.
lenfantsuave
Bogey Member
I guess it's what Ian suggested. Maybe we get a Jomez tour. But I'm not knowledgeable about the kind of catalyzing energy it would take for a media group to brand its own tour. The thought definitely excites me. As a consumer I fee much more loyalty to the production crews than I do to a tour. That tells me that Jomez has been marketing their product (to me at least) way better than the DGPT.
I predict that (and I think i said this in the other thread) the big winners in this will be the entrepreneurial A-tier TD's who want their tournament to get more of a spotlight...and potentially eventually be a NT, which could really use some quality new bids right now. If I were that person, I'd already be messaging one of these groups about coverage...for the exact reasons you're saying.
Overall, there's a ton of effort into running a tour, BUT it's not like either the PDGA or the DGPT does all of it in house. They rely tremendously on the TD's and volunteers.
We have managed to put on pretty makeup for the cameras the last couple of years, but our tour infrastructure is still severely lacking on all fronts.
Jomez, or any production company, developing their own tour and keeping video production inhouse. Isn't this what Dodge is trying to do? I am not sure why it is a bad idea for DGPT and a good idea for anyone else.
It's not about the idea, it's about how he went about it.
The ends do not justify the means to me. He used people to get where he is, now he showed them the door. Is it a business move? Sure. Is it a disc golf move? No. Not given the way he marketed his tour from day 1.
youdidwell
Birdie Member
I think Steve is just coming realize that the community/sport/money isn't there for LIVE coverage only so he needs the extra income of post production videos as well. He is admitting failure because if I remember correctly the talk a couple years ago was all about LIVE coverage. Unfortunately a delayed 55 minute long compressed action ondemand is more interesting/viewed than 3 hours slow LIVE action. It is not hard to avoid DG results and turn around has been shorten to only a day now.
Seriously? Are people really clamoring for 3rd card+ coverage? Not me. I can barely make it through 4 round of lead card on some of those courses. Watching different people throwing the same line over and over ain't interesting.
I can't see this as anything more than a cash grab for additional YouTube revenue and to improve his Branding. I mean, people talk about Slomez... no one cares about the DGPT logo.
Seriously? Are people really clamoring for 3rd card+ coverage? Not me. I can barely make it through 4 round of lead card on some of those courses. Watching different people throwing the same line over and over ain't interesting.
I can't see this as anything more than a cash grab for additional YouTube revenue and to improve his Branding. I mean, people talk about Slomez... no one cares about the DGPT logo.
steinkecm
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jul 18, 2012
- Messages
- 821
Let's remember that Vibram was not at the top of the disc golf world with Steve Dodge (and, and far as I understand it, not exactly an easy company to deal with from a wholesale standpoint either). I think Steve Dodge got out knowing the company was ending its disc golf line. Or at least read the writing on the wall. Let's not make the assumption that Vibram Disc Golf failed because the might Steve Dodge left.
