Disc Golf Contracts (Green Mountain drift)

[jenb]

I like Kona, but it is kind of absurd to me that people can't mention her without the misogyny word getting slung around.

You can objectively say that her performance on the course hasn't match her pay. Fans do that in every sport, get used to it.

I don't understand her "social media" presence. She doesn't really put much out there. I wish she put out more. I enjoyed her Youtube vids when she was with Innova.

Well, she sells discs. Does she? I bag Cat Allen, Paige Pierce, and Henna discs. I've played with people that bag discs from Tattar, Missy Gannon, Hailey King, Macey Velediaz, Kat Mertsch, and even stuff like Callie McMorran Roadrunners. I don't think I've ever seen a Kona disc in person.

I'd love for her to play great and put out stuff and and get her name on discs that are readily available and would help my game and "earn" her contract, but she hasn't. Maybe she will next year.

About selling discs, a lot of pro women I know have received a large portion of their support from sponsors as discs that they then have to sell to get the money. That's part of why we say a disc golf sponsorship is really a job peddling discs. It's quite literal. I assumed that's what was referred to here.

 

[autocrosscrx]

About selling discs, a lot of pro women I know have received a large portion of their support from sponsors as discs that they then have to sell to get the money. That's part of why we say a disc golf sponsorship is really a job peddling discs. It's quite literal. I assumed that's what was referred to here.

Right. It doesn't appear to me that Kona moves the needle here.

 

[kyflash]

I like Kona, but it is kind of absurd to me that people can't mention her without the misogyny word getting slung around.

You can objectively say that her performance on the course hasn't match her pay. Fans do that in every sport, get used to it.

I don't understand her "social media" presence. She doesn't really put much out there. I wish she put out more. I enjoyed her Youtube vids when she was with Innova.

Well, she sells discs. Does she? I bag Cat Allen, Paige Pierce, and Henna discs. I've played with people that bag discs from Tattar, Missy Gannon, Hailey King, Macey Velediaz, Kat Mertsch, and even stuff like Callie McMorran Roadrunners. I don't think I've ever seen a Kona disc in person.

I'd love for her to play great and put out stuff and and get her name on discs that are readily available and would help my game and "earn" her contract, but she hasn't. Maybe she will next year.

She should be given a one year pass.
She has only thrown Innova up until this year. Some of those discs had to be in stages of wear that she knew exactly what to expect from them.
These DD discs that are currently in her bag do not yet have that "beat in" trust and knowledge.
To say she hadn't stunk it up this year would be a lie. If she is not top 10-15 next year, then DD made a mistake.
If a top 10ish player changes sponsors and then is missing cuts on the regular, the appearance is (could be) that it is the discs.
Plus she has posted that she is having mental health/psychological concerns. That could be caused by her performance.
Either way, don't judge the switch until mid way next year.

 

[jenb]

Right. It doesn't appear to me that Kona moves the needle here.

I doubt I'd realize it if I saw one. Her name is tiny on most of these.

But it looks like DD is actually putting her name on popular molds and selling them at more or less competitive prices. What I've seen other sponsors do is go "You want a $30,000 sponsorship? Great! We took 1000 discs out of overstock on our least popular mold and stamped them with your name, so now they're worth $30 instead of the $15 the regular ones don't sell for. Look at that! They fit in the trunk of your car! Happy selling." But at least the player can set their own price at that point, assuming that's not against the sponsorship agreement.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

A fair number of the posts arguing against my claim about sexism being a factor in the dislike and criticism of Kona actually proved my point which was always going to be how it played out because men are grumpy that a woman was confident and got paid. She can't force a company to pay her. They offered her an amount and she accepted. How dare she, as a female worker, accept the money the market will put in her bank account.

The descriptions of Kona shared here prove exactly how sexism is in play.

If you think it's a bad deal for DD, criticize McCabe and Russco. They said, "Here, we would like to pay you this money," and she said, "Thank you. I will take it."

But she was (is) supposed to be feeble and submissive because that's what the patriarchy demands of women.

 

[Jolt]

A fair number of the posts arguing against my claim about sexism being a factor in the dislike and criticism of Kona actually proved my point which was always going to be how it played out because men are grumpy that a woman was confident and got paid. She can't force a company to pay her. They offered her an amount and she accepted. How dare she, as a female worker, accept the money the market will put in her bank account.

The descriptions of Kona shared here prove exactly how sexism is in play.

If you think it's a bad deal for DD, criticize McCabe and Russco. They said, "Here, we would like to pay you this money," and she said, "Thank you. I will take it."

But she was (is) supposed to be feeble and submissive because that's what the patriarchy demands of women.

I really dont understand this post at all. . .it make no sence.

But should we talk about the women in the sport that are underpaid or is that sexist to?. . .or can we talk about overpaid MPO players or is that also sexist?

 

[dmoore1998]

I really dont understand this post at all. . .it make no sence.

But should we talk about the women in the sport that are underpaid or is that sexist to?. . .or can we talk about overpaid MPO players or is that also sexist?

Instead of talking about how Kona is overpaid and DD made a mistake, can we talk about how KT is underpaid and she did a poor job of negotiating her contract?

We should also be fair in saying that it's probably just about every pro athlete's DREAM to negotiate a contract worth more than they really are. Maybe KP is just a superior negotiator compared to her disc golf? Not enough shade on her for KT's poor business skills IMO.

(FYI, this is all a joke, even if the logic behind is probably pretty sound).

 

[Jolt]

But really no point to talk about this. . once the "sexism" card is up you are a bad person no matter what.

But Kristins contract was the base for Konas. . so i just hope other FPO players can get the same type of contract. . .but then again i dont think the sport has enough money for that many +$100 000 a year contracts.

And the same on the MPO side, if every top pro wants Paul and Ricky money many discgolf companys is going to go under, ,

But its the same in most sports, a few players gets ALOT and others gets very little. . .fair pay in sports has never been a thing

 

[Sheridan]

A fair number of the posts arguing against my claim about sexism being a factor in the dislike and criticism of Kona actually proved my point which was always going to be how it played out because men are grumpy that a woman was confident and got paid. She can't force a company to pay her. They offered her an amount and she accepted. How dare she, as a female worker, accept the money the market will put in her bank account.

The descriptions of Kona shared here prove exactly how sexism is in play.

If you think it's a bad deal for DD, criticize McCabe and Russco. They said, "Here, we would like to pay you this money," and she said, "Thank you. I will take it."

But she was (is) supposed to be feeble and submissive because that's what the patriarchy demands of women.

Honestly, if it were a male player who signed a big contract and then tanked, I think they would be getting lots more criticism. This stuff happens all the time in sports. In team sports, it can be damaging, as it's resources that could be spent elsewhere. In an individual sport, it only effects the company that is paying. Unless someone has a vested interest in that company, I don't know why it should be an issue to them. In any event, I hope Kona can turn it around and make this a non-issue.

 

[Jolt]

Instead of talking about how Kona is overpaid and DD made a mistake, can we talk about how KT is underpaid and she did a poor job of negotiating her contract?

We should also be fair in saying that it's probably just about every pro athlete's DREAM to negotiate a contract worth more than they really are. Maybe KP is just a superior negotiator compared to her disc golf? Not enough shade on her for KT's poor business skills IMO.

(FYI, this is all a joke, even if the logic behind is probably pretty sound).

i´m sure MANY players are underpaid or in long contracts signed before the "boom of discgolf"

But again, i dont see how +100 players could get Paul, Ricky and Paige money or even Kristin and Kona money.. . .but maybe they can, Soccerteams pay insane money for their players, money the club often does not even have

 

[jenb]

I doubt DD is kicking themselves. They obviously decided to snap up some up and coming FPO players with potential before a competitor locked them down like they had already done with others. DD did that hoping one would pay off, and one did. Money well spent. And Kona can still shed the yips during her contract term. I think fans are the only ones getting upset about the sponsorships.

 

[Jolt]

I doubt DD is kicking themselves. They obviously decided to snap up some up and coming FPO players with potential before a competitor locked them down like they had already done with others. DD did that hoping one would pay off, and one did. Money well spent. And Kona can still shed the yips during her contract term. I think fans are the only ones getting upset about the sponsorships.

But they could get the problem that Valerie and Holyn wants the same type of contract as Kona got. . or even every single player they try to get will "demand" that type of contract. .
But Discraft has the same "problem" . . and most big sports team have this problem, people wants what other players has. . . . and then the star player wants more. . and so on

Lets say Ricky got 1,1M. then Paul says "ok then i want 1,3M" - - and so on until Discraft and DD just can afford Paul and Rick but nobody else

 

[araytx]

Whoever at DD made that decision must really be kicking themselves now

Instead of talking about how Kona is overpaid and DD made a mistake, can we talk about how KT is underpaid and she did a poor job of negotiating her contract?

We should also be fair in saying that it's probably just about every pro athlete's DREAM to negotiate a contract worth more than they really are. Maybe KP is just a superior negotiator compared to her disc golf? Not enough shade on her for KT's poor business skills IMO.

(FYI, this is all a joke, even if the logic behind is probably pretty sound).

I've said this before and I'll say it again. No player in ANY sport gets PAID (aka the big contract) based upon what the owner thinks "you're gonna do[in the future]." You get PAID based upon what you have done[in the recent past]. Do they *hope* your play or media or whatever that got you there continues? -- sure they do. But that's not the basis of the big deal. It's what you have done that gets you the deal.


Now that being said, something tells me that Kristin's $125,000/year might seriously go up before the end of this contract. as well.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Now that being said, something tells me that Kristin's $125,000/year might seriously go up before the end of this contract. as well.

One can certainly make an argument for it. Any benefit to Lat 64 being associated with her in terms of sheer visibility has increased big time. She made a pretty big splash last year.

But she's definitely the hottest player this year.
Not saying she'll do the same next year, but she hasn't given anyone any reason to think she might slow down.

I hope whatever she does regarding her arm works out wonderfully. The game's better with her playing.

 

[dmoore1998]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. No player in ANY sport gets PAID (aka the big contract) based upon what the owner thinks "you're gonna do[in the future]." You get PAID based upon what you have done[in the recent past]. Do they *hope* your play or media or whatever that got you there continues? -- sure they do. But that's not the basis of the big deal. It's what you have done that gets you the deal.


Now that being said, something tells me that Kristin's $125,000/year might seriously go up before the end of this contract. as well.

This isn't accurate though. If it were true, we wouldn't be seeing MAX rookie extensions in the NBA for guys who can't stay on the court during their rookie deal. Heck, if it was based on what you've done in recent past, Markelle Fultz wouldn't have gotten a 2nd deal. Zion Williamson wouldn't have a 5 year, potentially $231 million contract. Ben Simmons and Joel Embiid wouldn't have gotten big contracts after their rookie deals where they largely didn't even play. Those are ALL contracts based on anticipation, not performance. None of those guys got big deals because the teams thought "well we're going to pay them this much because they never play and this is what never playing is worth to us".

Heck, look at the NBA draft when high schoolers were allowed in. The entire draft was anticipatory in hoping to find a younger person who could BECOME a star, not about what they had actually accomplished.

If that were true you wouldn't see that every starting QB in the NFL gets a higher value contract than the last guy.

Players get big contracts for all kinds of reasons (again, looking to the NBA, Bradley Beal has a monstrous contract, and it certainly isn't because of what he's done, or what they anticipate him to do, it's because they have nobody else to pay and he's the best they can do).

Big contracts tend to come based on the timing of the contract more than any other factor. New contracts tend to be bigger, even for significantly worse players. As example...NFL quarterback average value...Patrick Mahomes is behind Kyler Murray...because Kyler got his contract after Patrick.

 

[Sheridan]

Comparing disc golf contracts to anything in big time team sports is a no go. Minimal correlation.

 

[DanJon]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. No player in ANY sport gets PAID (aka the big contract) based upon what the owner thinks "you're gonna do[in the future]." You get PAID based upon what you have done[in the recent past]. Do they *hope* your play or media or whatever that got you there continues? -- sure they do. But that's not the basis of the big deal. It's what you have done that gets you the deal.


Now that being said, something tells me that Kristin's $125,000/year might seriously go up before the end of this contract. as well.

Your point is true, but it's also true that they are getting paid in the hopes of future success (see athletes drafted out of high school, or 1-2 years of college).

I would say that the hope for future success is even more important.

Otherwise, why offer these big, multi-year contracts?

Hence where the criticism comes into play when an athlete gets the big payday after a great season and then can't reproduce after said big contract.

 

[teemkey]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. No player in ANY sport gets PAID (aka the big contract) based upon what the owner thinks "you're gonna do[in the future]." You get PAID based upon what you have done[in the recent past]. Do they *hope* your play or media or whatever that got you there continues? -- sure they do. But that's not the basis of the big deal. It's what you have done that gets you the deal.


Now that being said, something tells me that Kristin's $125,000/year might seriously go up before the end of this contract. as well.

Let's see what Blomroos and Salinon get in their next contract. Two throwers even better than Panis (arguably), but also Innova players with putting issues.

(PS: did you read the article I linked above?)

 

[Flick Maniac]

If I was their sponsor I'd be like. Here, you get this much money. Also, we're paying this mental coach and putting guru to work with you. Also, if your C1x stats hit this and this threshold by mid season 2023, you get this and this bonus.

Money well spent

 

[Shallows]

Now why, other than jealousy or misogyny, would Kona be reviled by some people?

The first seems to be that she's on the wrong side of the cockiness/confidence divide. Generally, confidence is accepted if the player performs at or near the level they publicly assess their ability. Kona has not been performing well.

The second seems to be that her contract is, to an extent, based on her social media shills rather than her disc golf skills. While that's clearly a good reason for DD, most dg fans want athletes rewarded primarily for on the field performance, like most major sports (even if that may not be a business wise attitude).

Lol I don't see anyone "reviling" Kona.
It's all good fun, maybe years down the line we'll have a "Happy KSP Day" ala Bobby Bonilla and the Mets!

I guess there are some people who don't like DD because they have a folksy Christian ethos and criminal justice-themed naming strategy and are relishing their unfortunate contract luck, but I would say that's a small group of people.