Yeah, the Champ Leo and the slightly seasoned DX Teebird should work fine as stable fairway drivers. If the DX Leos are still a bit flippy you can try some DX Gazelles or D/X/ESP Cyclones as well.
-
Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)
Discing down adventures.
- Thread starter BrotherDave
- Start date
josiahv
Par Member
Thanks, it's nice to have some relatively instant feedback when working on this stuff :thmbup:
I think PLS's are around speed 7.
garublador
* Ace Member *
That's my thought, too. I agree that the Polaris LS should be pretty similar to a Cheetah. I'd put it at a speed 6. The JLS is closer to 7 and the Orion LS is more like speed 9.
If it is a Polaris LS then your issue is probably nose angle.
U_NICED_ME
* Ace Member *
No, not doing hammer pound drills. Is that in the Blake secret videos???
And I like the thought of rebuilding my x-step a bit. It makes sense to work on it with these drills.
garublador
* Ace Member *
Yep. They really don't take that long and help out a lot. It makes everything much easier, too because the drills are "self correcting." That means that once you get the feel of the hammer pound (which is what the drills teach) then all you have to do is maximize the force of the pound. Anything you do that makes it stronger is right, anything that makes it weaker is wrong and everything else is unnecessary. You don't have to focus on or try to achieve any specific, tiny mechanics or timing change, you only have to worry about the hammer pound.
Your concise description is most excellent.
cfair
* Ace Member *
garu just kinda rocks. I one day hope to be like him.
However, I'm wondering. Garu, what does your distance and accuracy look like now that you've worked through the hammer drills?
However, I'm wondering. Garu, what does your distance and accuracy look like now that you've worked through the hammer drills?
aarikc17
Double Eagle Member
I credit discing down with 80% credit of improving my game. I throw aviars and rocs on 70% of the time now off the tee. I makes me "see" lines much better, and helps with control issues.
SlowRoll was on to something..
It's funny because I feel I can throw my Valks better than the Polaris! But I"m also pretty sure it's psychological because I haven't thrown the Polaris as much as the Valks and I'm just more confident with the Valks.
It could also be something I discovered today. Like SlowRoll was saying, I'm now throwing almost every shot as a default hyzer. I consciously tried lining up with shoulders parallel to my line and then throw a straight shot. They all left my hand with a slight hyzer angle and this could account for (at least somewhat) to my problems with the Polaris. Now, if I setup with a slightly closed (pointing a bit left of my line) and threw with a little anny, the shots went pretty straight. My question IS: when u line up dead parallel to your line, should your shot come out dead straight or with a slight hyzer?
It's funny because I feel I can throw my Valks better than the Polaris! But I"m also pretty sure it's psychological because I haven't thrown the Polaris as much as the Valks and I'm just more confident with the Valks.
It could also be something I discovered today. Like SlowRoll was saying, I'm now throwing almost every shot as a default hyzer. I consciously tried lining up with shoulders parallel to my line and then throw a straight shot. They all left my hand with a slight hyzer angle and this could account for (at least somewhat) to my problems with the Polaris. Now, if I setup with a slightly closed (pointing a bit left of my line) and threw with a little anny, the shots went pretty straight. My question IS: when u line up dead parallel to your line, should your shot come out dead straight or with a slight hyzer?
Kind of vague, it depends on what kind of line I want. :\
I'm starting to want a Polaris now to see what's going on.
:doh:Kind of vague, it depends on what kind of line I want. :\
I'm starting to want a Polaris now to see what's going on.
Well, I don't mean to disparage the Polaris, I'm sure it's just me--lol. Actually, I can throw it forehand no problems and it does go nice and straight. It's just backhand that I have problems. With the discing down period, I got used to throwing most everything with a little hyzer. Is that what u want to happen? No doubt that discing down has vastly improved my basic stroke! But now I am having problems converting back to drivers...
It's definitely better than throwing everything with a little anhyzer, which almost always leads to rolling the wrist over (OAT). You also tend to reverse pivot when throwing with anhyzer, which is also bad.
You might have to consider the option that you just can't throw your old drivers. I didn't feel like going back to Surges and Vikings b/c I didn't get that much more distance to make it worth the sacrifice in control that I have with my Eagles. Not talking about you personally b/c I don't know what your drivers are but I get the feeling that a lot of guys disc down on here, throw their putters and mids for a couple of weeks, and then want to jump right back into throwing Bosses and Destroyers. It just doesn't work like that for most of us.
You might have to consider the option that you just can't throw your old drivers. I didn't feel like going back to Surges and Vikings b/c I didn't get that much more distance to make it worth the sacrifice in control that I have with my Eagles. Not talking about you personally b/c I don't know what your drivers are but I get the feeling that a lot of guys disc down on here, throw their putters and mids for a couple of weeks, and then want to jump right back into throwing Bosses and Destroyers. It just doesn't work like that for most of us.
Yes, you should releasing the majority of your shots (except on annys) with a lil hyzer. Weather they release the line on a hyzer or straight will depend on the disc and the line you want. They will flip up then cruise, sometimes turning, then fade.
Two things I want to remind is to use the teepad direction and follow through on the same plane. So hyzers will be back left to front right, opposite for anny, straight for straight. Make a rainbow of follow through for hyzers, downward for anny, across for straight.
Yes, faster discs will seem more overstable. It may be an ego burn, especially if you were oating them before- but it's better to have a range of discs that you can throw "correctly", along with a multitude of speeds to look forward to, then to be limited to overstable or fast discs.
Ofcourse jmho
Two things I want to remind is to use the teepad direction and follow through on the same plane. So hyzers will be back left to front right, opposite for anny, straight for straight. Make a rainbow of follow through for hyzers, downward for anny, across for straight.
Yes, faster discs will seem more overstable. It may be an ego burn, especially if you were oating them before- but it's better to have a range of discs that you can throw "correctly", along with a multitude of speeds to look forward to, then to be limited to overstable or fast discs.
Ofcourse jmho
garublador
* Ace Member *
I've probably spent less than 5 minutes really focusing on the hammer drills. I'll do the "flip back" a bit before most drives to make sure I get that feel, but that's really about it. I haven't thrown in a field since I've done it, either. I've only played a handful of rounds at a course I know well so I can only give estimates.
What i have noticed is that while my max drive on most holes hasn't improved (it has on a few), I match my best drives much more consistently than before. Rather than having a really great drive every few rounds, it now happens several times per round.
I have noticed that on some of the more open holes if I empty my bag my putters end where my average mid shot used to land, my mids land where my fairway drivers did and my fairway drivers are going perhaps 30'-40' farther. I'm not all that great with distance drivers, and wasn't before so they still go as far or perhaps a bit farther than my Teebirds. Giving some rough estimates I'd say that I'm hitting 380'-400' with DX Teebirds with much more consistency now, 330'-340' with Rocs and around 280'-300' with Wizards. All those discs go straighter now, too.
I'm probably hitting those distances 6-8 out of 10 times when I used to hit them 2-3 out of 10 times before. I've had a few times where I went to my normal landing zone on an open hole and spent a few minutes wandering around because I didn't realize how far my drive went. I really need to get to a field to confirm and get better practice, but things have been wild here lately.
garublador
* Ace Member *
Yes.
You should be able to throw any of those angles. What I do is set up with my throwing shoulder pointing on the line I want. When I reach back I reach back with my shoulders on the hyzer/anhyzer angle I want. I make eye contact with the target as soon as I can (before the hit) and if I manage to accomplish all of that I'll hit the initial trajectory I want on the angle I want.FWIW, I almost always recommend starting with a putter, mid and fairway driver like the Polaris LS. I don't think using just a putter and mid is necessary in most cases. It can be easy to not learn to throw nose down that way.
cfair
* Ace Member *
YES! You want this to happen and its the second longest part of this process. As far as all the talk of throwing in a flat line to get a flat line shot it will not work because all discs have either understability or over stability. The best way to get a flat straight line is learning hyzer angles with understable discs because they will flip into a flat line.
I think I explained a page or two back about this but the discing down process should teach you to throw hyzer because it teaches you to throw with the leverage of your body weight. Anhyzer, more often than not, doesn't give you much leverage and teaches you to muscle the disc. I also explained that in this process drivers become more difficult to throw because they raise the issue of nose angle, require a bit more touch hyzer angle, but also you are now throwing according to your ability and thus the big drivers won't work the same.
When you muscle the throw you'll end up throwing everything about the same length. Distance drivers won't go much farther than fairway drivers at all. Now you build up in speeds. So in working mids and putters you will relearn drivers with proper technique. The biggest help I've found in making this transition is two things. 1) A "tweener" driver like a cyclone, stalker, or gazelle will help transition from buzzz and rocs into Teebirds and Eagles. 2) Raise the pull line up a bit and use hyzer angle. This is usually, at this point you've described, is as easy as straightening up your back a bit. Learning to throw with the hyzer release you probably find your weight leaning forward over your chest. Straighten your back a bit and try the drivers, it should help some but you'll still have to learn high lines (which is where I am stuck).
cfair
* Ace Member *
I use to think to myself "Overstable discs are my bread and butter" because I threw 340' with so much OAT it was insane now that I think about it. However... I still have those crazy shots if I ever need them... I don't think that will be likely.
Also it is a bit of an ego burn to be with your buds and they all have wraiths, nukes, destroyers and such and your stepping up to the teepad with a comet. But it is only an ego burn for a minute until you start throwing that comet within 5' of their distance and you have a crap ton more control. Its an ego boost when you can throw that comet PAST their big discs on a straight line where they had to flex to get it that far... :thmbup::thmbup::thmbup:
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
Its cool seeing some of this explanation going on here because for the most part, I just assumed I am doign ok making small improvements at a time, with a couple bigger improvements here and there; and I felt like I might understand it; but hearing this, I know Im getting it.
I think "time" and "patience" are going to be my next steps.
I think "time" and "patience" are going to be my next steps.
cfair
* Ace Member *
Bummer you can't get out much, I've had a bit of a neck issue and haven't been able to really play all week (and I just got my new firm ridge and summit too...). Over the winter I'm going to work on the hammer drills and snapping the towel through refining my bag (my bag being the process by which I step up in speeds).
I'm going to disagree here a bit. I think carrying a fairway prevents you from learning the most versatile and used disc in the game. Your putter. Now if your going to limit the use of putter, mid, and fairway to certain distances I can maybe understand but I think starting from ground zero and building up using transition points is the best option because it keeps you from trying to learn everything at once. With those 3 discs I'm trying to learn everything together. Working with putters first, then mids, then fairways you learn the elements you need to step by step by step and at each step you require less adjustments to make instead of trying to make them all at once because getting a 300+ putter throw isn't the same as a 300+ driver throw. The slower discs put the blinders on for you... but I suppose it is a preference...
I'm going to disagree here a bit. I think carrying a fairway prevents you from learning the most versatile and used disc in the game. Your putter. Now if your going to limit the use of putter, mid, and fairway to certain distances I can maybe understand but I think starting from ground zero and building up using transition points is the best option because it keeps you from trying to learn everything at once. With those 3 discs I'm trying to learn everything together. Working with putters first, then mids, then fairways you learn the elements you need to step by step by step and at each step you require less adjustments to make instead of trying to make them all at once because getting a 300+ putter throw isn't the same as a 300+ driver throw. The slower discs put the blinders on for you... but I suppose it is a preference...
