Earhart breaking down footwork

[Sheep]

https://youtu.be/5_OcQ04rGL8

This is pretty good.

I shot the exact shuffle drill a few years ago and never posted it because I wasn't happy with how it turned out. *facepalm*

I should have focused more on getting content out and not worrying about quality.

I do have the modified 1 step drill posted though, named that exactly.

Bunch of great information in here though. I don't see anything terribly wrong with what he explains in this video. I'm not 100% through it though.

 

[twistedraven]

I brought this up on reddit yesterday following the video:

It's good of Brian to respond and clear things up.

 

[Sheep]

I brought this up on reddit yesterday following the video:


It's good of Brian to respond and clear things up.

oh cool. i didn't catch that.

Its one of the things I worry about with making videos myself, them being to long where you cannot retain enough information.

I gave up on /r/discgolf cause its so toxic and full of dummies.

 

[Brychanus]

https://youtu.be/5_OcQ04rGL8

This is pretty good.

I shot the exact shuffle drill a few years ago and never posted it because I wasn't happy with how it turned out. *facepalm*

I should have focused more on getting content out and not worrying about quality.

I do have the modified 1 step drill posted though, named that exactly.

Bunch of great information in here though. I don't see anything terribly wrong with what he explains in this video. I'm not 100% through it though.

Only had a minute to peek but will look later. Right away I noticed it looks like he stopped "knee slamming". Something still looks a little funky in his posture - maybe slightly still too much s-curve in his spine & his rear leg is still a little too extended & rear arm trailing behind to compensate for his posture in the transition to the plant. Doesn't mean the instruction itself isn't good, just thought I'd point it out.

 

[rhatton1]

I really enjoyed the video. informative, great pacing, good information, good do's and don'ts. Only issue was the driving phrasing and the implication of dropping the knee but he has already responded on that to Twisted.

I'm going to put it up there as one of my favourite to date from a professional player.

 

[SuperWookie]

So this is something I'm constantly messing up I think. I don't work on it enough, and yet, every time I come here or on YouTube to look over more form/technique stuff, I realize, I'm probably doing a few of these things wrong with my footwork. And Brian really hits on one point I think REALLY messes me up, when he's discussing the footwork. And that is timing.

I had amazing timing in my golf swing, tennis swing, slap shot, everything I've ever played. But not disc golf. It's never felt "right". And while watching this video of the X step (the part 2 section discussing the cross behind step), he really made me aware of the timing. And how more than likely, it is my first or second biggest problem and what is holding me back the most.

I have the athleticism, height, long levers, skill to absolutely crush. But I don't. And Brian discussing about how thinking about linking your throwing arm to your back leg, is SUCH a brilliant swing thought to think about. And something that Seedlings just mentioned to me in a thread I just posted about. That trying to keep the disc on your front hip (right hip for RHBH throwers) as long as possible, will result in better timing, and not turning back too soon. Which I KNOW I do. It's SUCH a frustrating habit to break. I have such a hard time, waiting and keeping the disc in the middle or even out front a bit, until my right foot has contacted the ground in the cross step. I start my back swing way too early, and it causes so many problems. So it's really great to see such an easy to understand video, from someone that really understands the footwork and how important it is.

I particularly like how he goes through the sequence of showing the problems that come with a longer cross step. And it's like a light bulb going off in my head. "Hey, that's me." I'm trying to copy Simon all the time. He has a long cross step, so it must be good. I should do that too! Hahaha

And I think I've just subconsciously been doing that, and not getting my feet aligned and in their "plane" well enough. And obviously, my long cross step (I have long legs though, I'm 6'8") is more than likely causing all sorts of balance issues and even more importantly, timing issues. And not being planted and having that timing be great to allow that "sling shot" type feel in the body and arm is what is holding me back so much. Especially since I'm constantly trying to yank or pull and really crush each shot. It's SUCH a bad problem and so hard to correct. But watching this video is really helping me understand some really important aspects of the throw. I'm really going to have to start working almost exclusively on better footwork and some sort of timing methods to get my upper body to stay at ~90* to the target for WAY longer. So that my back swing is much later, and my throw doesn't start until AFTER my plant.

But it brings me to my main question: Why does a longer cross step work so well for Simon and some others, but not for most of us or for me? Besides the copout response of: "Well, Simon's been playing since he was a kid. He's just way better." I really want to know why is Simon using such a long cross step? And what does it do for him, that a shorter more compact cross step isn't doing for him? He has SUCH a huge setup step, huge cross behind step, and plant step. Why? Why does it work for him, but not the rest of us? And should we NOT be trying to emulate that? Or is it only for advanced throwers?

Thanks for this video Sheep, GREAT stuff in here

 

[RistoS]

But it brings me to my main question: Why does a longer cross step work so well for Simon and some others, but not for most of us or for me? Besides the copout response of: "Well, Simon's been playing since he was a kid. He's just way better." I really want to know why is Simon using such a long cross step? And what does it do for him, that a shorter more compact cross step isn't doing for him? He has SUCH a huge setup step, huge cross behind step, and plant step. Why? Why does it work for him, but not the rest of us? And should we NOT be trying to emulate that? Or is it only for advanced throwers?

I suspect he has high mobility that allows him to get away with such movements. He also has a pretty extreme stagger on the plant step.

 

[Brychanus]

My 2 cents from my dev & spending time dredging this forum:

So this is something I'm constantly messing up I think. I don't work on it enough, and yet, every time I come here or on YouTube to look over more form/technique stuff, I realize, I'm probably doing a few of these things wrong with my footwork. And Brian really hits on one point I think REALLY messes me up, when he's discussing the footwork. And that is timing.

I'm interested in this "timing" concept for coaching. I personally am much more fond of the "begin, maintain, and end in balance" as the goal, but maybe that's because of my dance background and technical brain. Any time I try to "time" anything I end up micromanaging details that make things worse and not better. Maybe the closest thing to a "timing" cue I have is "peak of backswing" and "crush starts the downswing." If I get more detailed than that the swing falls apart and I begin muscling stuff somewhere in the chain.

I had amazing timing in my golf swing, tennis swing, slap shot, everything I've ever played. But not disc golf. It's never felt "right". And while watching this video of the X step (the part 2 section discussing the cross behind step), he really made me aware of the timing. And how more than likely, it is my first or second biggest problem and what is holding me back the most.

I feel you man. Timing made sense to me in dance. I only recently felt like "timing" made sense after lots of mechanical work. So that's why I'm interested in who/when "timing" swing thoughts work for. I also just recently realized not having those athletic intuitions was deeply throttling my swing and it took specific work to make me move more like an athlete, which made timing easier... it all relates somehow in this weird Gordian knot that is the DG swing.

I have the athleticism, height, long levers, skill to absolutely crush. But I don't. And Brian discussing about how thinking about linking your throwing arm to your back leg, is SUCH a brilliant swing thought to think about. And something that Seedlings just mentioned to me in a thread I just posted about. That trying to keep the disc on your front hip (right hip for RHBH throwers) as long as possible, will result in better timing, and not turning back too soon. Which I KNOW I do. It's SUCH a frustrating habit to break. I have such a hard time, waiting and keeping the disc in the middle or even out front a bit, until my right foot has contacted the ground in the cross step. I start my back swing way too early, and it causes so many problems. So it's really great to see such an easy to understand video, from someone that really understands the footwork and how important it is.

Obligatory Hammer Swing X-step link. But I'm curious about why this does or doesn't work for some people. "Rock the baby" helps for some people when they use the more "cradle the disc" posture like Simon etc.

I particularly like how he goes through the sequence of showing the problems that come with a longer cross step. And it's like a light bulb going off in my head. "Hey, that's me." I'm trying to copy Simon all the time. He has a long cross step, so it must be good. I should do that too! Hahaha

And I think I've just subconsciously been doing that, and not getting my feet aligned and in their "plane" well enough. And obviously, my long cross step (I have long legs though, I'm 6'8") is more than likely causing all sorts of balance issues and even more importantly, timing issues. And not being planted and having that timing be great to allow that "sling shot" type feel in the body and arm is what is holding me back so much. Especially since I'm constantly trying to yank or pull and really crush each shot. It's SUCH a bad problem and so hard to correct. But watching this video is really helping me understand some really important aspects of the throw. I'm really going to have to start working almost exclusively on better footwork and some sort of timing methods to get my upper body to stay at ~90* to the target for WAY longer. So that my back swing is much later, and my throw doesn't start until AFTER my plant.

But it brings me to my main question: Why does a longer cross step work so well for Simon and some others, but not for most of us or for me? Besides the copout response of: "Well, Simon's been playing since he was a kid. He's just way better." I really want to know why is Simon using such a long cross step? And what does it do for him, that a shorter more compact cross step isn't doing for him? He has SUCH a huge setup step, huge cross behind step, and plant step. Why? Why does it work for him, but not the rest of us? And should we NOT be trying to emulate that? Or is it only for advanced throwers?

6'8''??? Sweet Kashyyyk.

I want to synthesize a few ideas about Simon.

Reminder that Simon's hips are externally rotated (duck-footed) and he has an extreme posture. He is able to come into the swing aggressively with those hips and stays higher on the ball of his rear foot than most of us can (maybe leg/torso length ratio helps too). So relative to a camera squared up to the side of the tee in your 2nd image, Simon's stride looks long. But remember that the CoG hangs out somewhere in front of you when you're in your athletic DG posture (image on the left below).
If you're on the right camera axis relative to his pelvis and posture, you can see he's got his CoG above/ahead of the step just like everyone else (image below on the right).

I think so many people get confused trying to "be like Simon" (me too) without onboarding those ideas and that's why SW22 bothered put out several vids on it. Compared to your snapshot squared up to the tee above, Simon's X-step does not appear very extreme at all when you account for these variables. So I think the lesson is if your anatomy/athleticism can get you that kind of leverage, excellent for you - I think this is all part of the reason Simon gets such incredible power from how he coils and uncoils.

Thanks for this video Sheep, GREAT stuff in here

Agree!

 

[Waddball]

6'8''??? Sweet Kashyyyk.

:clap:

 

[Sheep]

Part of a tight X-Step is foot alignment. Keeping you from keeping your toes out, as simon moves into his plant and drives into his swing, his heel rotates out pushing his knee to the inside.

The problem with a large x-step is it will naturally put your hips and your rear foot at the wrong places at the wrong time.

I think its part of advancing your swing to the next level at some point with a faster moving "run up" vs a methodical dance style "walk up."

One of the biggest issues with people is trying to go to fast and step to far mimicking people like simon and not understanding the extra mechanics involved in what him and other pro's do when they make that large cross. Simplicity is the key, but when you advance your game more and more and learn more and more, or discover what you need to do on your own, these things will fall more naturally in place, but its important to remember the basics need to be recognized at all times. Which when moving faster like simon is, he has to cross hard to maintain balance, but he's adding extra difficulty to the whole swing which means harder more complex timing.


Moving on to the back foot disc talk he's speaking of, he's really just talking about walking the disc out which is something almost all pro players do, Thats why the whole term "reach back" is a fallacy, you're never really "reaching back" unless you're doing a standstill. In a stand still we must manually load our body into position, with any movement into the swing, you want the rhythm to stay in tune, and part of the load is balance, and part of the load is timing.

So walking the disc out, which is actually hard to do, especially if you learned on the stupidity of "reach back" vs "back swing" with walking the disc out.

Sidewinder has a few video's on this. The pool cue one, the one with the rope and handle, They are about teaching your body to walk the disc out and load your body at the same time. If we literally reach back, we are not relaxed, and if we literally pull through, we are not relaxed. Relaxed allows us to load our body and gain that rubber band motion, the rubber band isn't about driving your arm out behind you and ripping your arm into a throw. That's a good way to get hurt.
When we load a rubber band, we are doing the bow thing, sidewinder again.... You load the tension and release. but if we try and assist the arrow to much, we will throw off the shot. And one of the keys to archery and many other things is follow through, and follow through is where we flourish the muscles after the release.

In archery, you watch archers continue to pull their hand back as they release the string. They are not pushing the arrow forwards. Which is why when you're throwing these frisbee's, its important to focus our energy into the follow through. Which essentially means, just about the time we are to rip the disc out of our hands, engaging the extra to push through the swing.

Ball golf and baseball are like this, its all a huge load just about till impact and letting leverage do the work and pushing through the swing.

 

[Hampejo]

Quickly watched it through. The first thing I noticed was that his own plant step is very staggered and not in the line he is talking about. That's not a real issue though since what he says seems valid. The thing he says about not letting the heel touch ground in x-step though? Eager to hear what SW22 has to say about that.

 

[Hampejo]

Quickly watched it through. The first thing I noticed was that his own plant step is very staggered and not in the line he is talking about. That's not a real issue though since what he says seems valid. The thing he says about not letting the heel touch ground in x-step though? Eager to hear what SW22 has to say about that.

And the perpendicularity of the x-step. Could be limiting the figure 8 right? Must depend on hip structure as well?

 

[jupiterboy]

Something still looks a little funky in his posture - maybe slightly still too much s-curve in his spine & his rear leg is still a little too extended & rear arm trailing behind to compensate for his posture in the transition to the plant. Doesn't mean the instruction itself isn't good, just thought I'd point it out.

This comment is interesting to me as I'm currently struggling with some spinal instability (age) and my body's tenacious desire to straighten my spine, which often results in an anhyzer release. I'm currently doing some fieldwork trying to keep my shoulders back and throw sweeping hyzer shots. I'm thinking that a life of poor posture plus a layer of posture correction over the top of that makes a shaky base for my form.

I'm not asking for a solution, but I don't hear people talk about spinal alignment during the throw, and the leaning forward part of the hyzer intuitively seems rather complicated to me personally.

 

[sidewinder22]

I had amazing timing in my golf swing, tennis swing, slap shot, everything I've ever played. But not disc golf. It's never felt "right". And while watching this video of the X step (the part 2 section discussing the cross behind step), he really made me aware of the timing. And how more than likely, it is my first or second biggest problem and what is holding me back the most.

Is it the beginning, or is it the hit/end/intention that is the fundamental issue?

The x-step is just adding momentum into the throw/"standstill".

If your hit/end/intention is not correct, then the beginning of the x-step or the middle or end will likely not be correct either. You should be able to work/step your way backwards from the hit point all the way to the start of the x-step or from no-step to 1-step to 2-step to 3-step.

But it brings me to my main question: Why does a longer cross step work so well for Simon and some others, but not for most of us or for me? Besides the copout response of: "Well, Simon's been playing since he was a kid. He's just way better." I really want to know why is Simon using such a long cross step? And what does it do for him, that a shorter more compact cross step isn't doing for him? He has SUCH a huge setup step, huge cross behind step, and plant step. Why? Why does it work for him, but not the rest of us? And should we NOT be trying to emulate that? Or is it only for advanced throwers?

Step length is dependent on speed in order to maintain dynamic balance. Most people instruct players to slow down and take a smaller x-step. It's like the difference between normal walking vs running.

Individual anatomical differences like size and flexibility and posture and athletic coordination may also vary length.

 

[sidewinder22]

I shot the exact shuffle drill a few years ago and never posted it because I wasn't happy with how it turned out. *facepalm*

I should have focused more on getting content out and not worrying about quality.

I do have the modified 1 step drill posted though, named that exactly.

Shuffle or Ladder Drill from Crush the Can like Lizotte, and Open to Closed Drill which a is 1-step variant also similar to Twirly Bird:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwy1HNMfhbk#t=3m20s

 

[sidewinder22]

The thing he says about not letting the heel touch ground in x-step though? Eager to hear what SW22 has to say about that.

McBeth and McMahon often end up the rear heel on the ground, but they get the heel up before the toes. Heel down can give you better stability, but typically we want to be quicker/mobile.

Heel down is only bad if you end up pushing off it so toes go airborne before heel, and some pros still do that like Paul Oman, and Earhart a couple years ago, and Will Schusterick post 2015. This is not ideal, but can obviously still work at a high level.

 

[Brychanus]

This comment is interesting to me as I'm currently struggling with some spinal instability (age) and my body's tenacious desire to straighten my spine, which often results in an anhyzer release. I'm currently doing some fieldwork trying to keep my shoulders back and throw sweeping hyzer shots. I'm thinking that a life of poor posture plus a layer of posture correction over the top of that makes a shaky base for my form.

I'm not asking for a solution, but I don't hear people talk about spinal alignment during the throw, and the leaning forward part of the hyzer intuitively seems rather complicated to me personally.

I think posture's tough for many people. And even if you have good posture in one domain it apparently doesn't necessarily fix the posture for DG. I wanted to provide a few thoughts and I hope something in here helps.

I do think SW22 Battering Ram, Hammer X-Step, Power of Posture, and related drills are very helpful. I had additional difficulty with overall posture control and learned several kettlebell swings to get used to "grounding" my weight.

I learned to simplify the spine angle/hyzer/anhyzer etc. problems by learning from Golf. As SW22 often instructs, you want to find a good athletic posture for your body, then adjust the overall body for different angles when you throw.

Some players don't load their weight correctly in their legs when they set up to throw. You want your body to load the posterior chain to move correctly and hinge from the hips. If you do not have severe restrictions, this will feel like a natural posture because it takes the load off of your knees and lumbar region. Many people are too "anterior dominant" due to desk life. It can take some work to get the flexibility/strength caught up in the posterior chain if this is the case.

That's not the whole story. I'm apparently not alone in lacking good leg action, so it is also worth mentioning. I couldn't obtain ideal posture and force transfer through the swing without certain mechanics like "pogo legs" existing in the form. I found it impossible to stay in good posture and swivel my hips correctly without the "pogos" as I've been learning to do here. Because the "pogo" action is so tight and quick in high level form, I think it's easy to miss if you're not used to it.

You want that bouncing, athletic action to help your body move your weight back and forth. You should be in a neutral athletic posture with protracted shoulders when you do it, and start with more vertical bouncing and take it more horizontal/wider stance.

 

[tomsdiscs]

This used to baffle me - huge last step, hard to get "up" on your plant foot, but worked for these youngsters back then, they were generating a lot of momentum going into the plant -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfjiaZ9DvXQ

Then there is this vid where Nate and Paul do preach turning those hips back so they are set up to swing forward which helps everything above swing forward -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0gzNIRxRbY

Earhart is preaching a lateral slide with no real emphasis on hip and shoulder turn, so it will be good for control shots, not so much power shots - get those shoulders turning and the arm follows behind and whips, even better if some hip turn precedes the shoulder turn, but the shoulders must turn or you are arm throwing, let the shoulder turn and pull the throwing arm.

A good drill for shoulder turn timing is to have the back shoulder start the turn and push into the front shoulder - it feels like a cannon shooting the disc.

If the right shoulder starts the turn, the back shoulder is dead weight it has to pull forward.

This all assumes RHBH.

Think of the shoulders as a propeller sitting on top of a stick (your torso, which moves over your plant foot).

 

[Sheep]

Earhart is preaching a lateral slide with no real emphasis on hip and shoulder turn, so it will be good for control shots, not so much power shots - get those shoulders turning and the arm follows behind and whips, even better if some hip turn precedes the shoulder turn, but the shoulders must turn or you are arm throwing, let the shoulder turn and pull the throwing arm.

To be fair, this video is about footwork, not shoulders.

The biggest issue of teaching and making video's like this is trying to focus so much on getting 1 thing right, that your body cannot compensate properly for everything else you're trying to explain.

So, trying to explain one thing turns into explaining 15 things which turns into
What were we talking about? =)

Breaking down things is huge, but also a pain at the same time, because you have to expect people following your break down to recognize that what you might be doing that is not the center of attention is going to not necessarily be correct, or not explicitly explained.

 

[davidh1]

You should be in a neutral athletic posture with protracted shoulders when you do it

Why protracted shoulders, can you please explain?