Enough with the alternate pins!!

[rocthecourse]

Funny, when I read this thread the first course I thought of was Grey Fox, specifically holes #1 and #2. The whole character of the course is completely different right out of the gate, if the pins are in short or long position.

They fixed #2 by adding a 3rd position AND and another basket. So if you want some extra challenge you can go for the long position with the basket set back in the woods, if you want to play the standard layout you can go for the basket in the open. I usually play both.

 

[Casey 1988]

Alternate tees are bad when all they do is add distance. #16 at Osage is an example of this. The first 2, 3 or 4 throws are in an open, flat field then you start playing the hole. The longest tee to longest pin there is I think 1600ft.

Besides that as long as the tee signs give out all the info I like alt pins/tees.

They are but in some cases they are labeled for the type of player from begginer to Intermediate to advanced/Pro. Those I do not mind or if the course seems like it was made that way. If they just do alternate pin that is further back and the hole is already challenging, then no they do not work.

 

[nothinbuttree]

With the tech that exists today, and with so many folks using DGCR and UDISC, it should be much easier than it is to know exactly where each pin is on any given day. I have played too many courses where multiple positions simply are not marked on a teesign. Or marked incorrectly. Or there is no teesign, etc.

GPS could be used to track where a phone goes, (like how google tracks traffic on the highway), and then using lat/lon coordinates, could update your course map for where the pin actually is, based upon how recent players have moved around the course.

I'm no techie--but this seems like it would not be hard to incorporate, and I for one would pay a little $ for it.

 

[joecoin]

All courses should be designed so that every hole can be played forward and backward.

A tee-pad and pin collar at each end, move the basket once a week.
Nice and even erosion control, variety is the spice of life, etc.

 

[ru4por]

With the tech that exists today, and with so many folks using DGCR and UDISC, it should be much easier than it is to know exactly where each pin is on any given day. I have played too many courses where multiple positions simply are not marked on a teesign. Or marked incorrectly. Or there is no teesign, etc.

GPS could be used to track where a phone goes, (like how google tracks traffic on the highway), and then using lat/lon coordinates, could update your course map for where the pin actually is, based upon how recent players have moved around the course.

I'm no techie--but this seems like it would not be hard to incorporate, and I for one would pay a little $ for it.

Don't even own a one of those cancer inducing, addiction inflicting, infernal ball and chains. Just mark the dang sign when you change the position. ..................

 

[ru4por]

I just do not for the life of me understand the OP's gripe.

Not only because IMO, I can't see alternate pin locations being anything but a positive, but also, what's even the point of having a second pin location 20' away from the first? Isn't the point of having changing pin locations to create several distinct hole possibilities that require different strategies to play them?

The whole thing reads like someone who went to a course expecting to play a bunch of easy short pins, got a bunch of longs, and is upset his score suffered, TBH. Now to be fair, I agree - the #1 priority in course design should be to create 18 good holes of golf first, then worry about add-ons later, and I also share the frustration that others have expressed about needing to walk way down a fairway to scope out a basket location when the signage does not indicate where it is, but if you're having trouble hacking it on the long pins somewhere, step up ya game.

I guess, in his defense, he was using ball golf as a comparison. Moving a ball golf hole, on a green, by a few feet, can make a vastly different putt.....given the green undulations and such. With those larger variables, it can really change your approach to the green as well.

 

[DavidSauls]

All courses should be designed so that every hole can be played forward and backward.

A tee-pad and pin collar at each end, move the basket once a week.
Nice and even erosion control, variety is the spice of life, etc.

Some of those "top of the world" shots would be brutal.

 

[eegor]

Older courses have been pulled in DFW (Bear Creek and soon Turner Park) due to erosion issues. Sometimes it's around the tee pads like Turner and other times overuse like Bear Creek. Any course that's going to have a lot of traffic should be designed to handle it. Multiple pins are pretty crucial to the health of the park (and I like them as a change up). An ideal course would have movable tee pads too, but we all know how difficult that would be. The ground gets really packed down around them. It's just not healthy for the park.

The "dream course" would have at least two tees per hole and three pin placements. A sign at the first hole could indicate the pin location. Each set of pin placements would have a third shortest, a third mid and a third longest. Tourney setup could be longs on every hole. Pins are moved the first of every month so everyone knows when the change would happen. That's a dream...

 

[Crooow]

The other problem with pins that change so dramatically is the possible disappointment when traveling to a course.....Seneca Creek #13 - I'm looking at you.

That's so funny because that was exactly what this made me think of. I used to play Seneca multiple days a week and it could be really disappointing to bring somebody out for the first time and find that some baskets were in the least interesting of the positions (usually 'A'). Especially when it was a friend from out of state who was sick of hearing how great the course is. Multiple permanent baskets is great, of course. Except for courses like Vista Del Camino in Phoenix where I stood on the tee and thought "which of the seven baskets I see is the one I should be playing to?" The maps were not that useful (but I still enjoyed it).

 

[DiscFifty]

Love courses with multiple pins, but there is something special about being able to challenge the same course layout whenever you want to. Just you against the course, a barometer to judge your current skill set.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

All courses should be designed so that every hole can be played forward and backward.

A tee-pad and pin collar at each end, move the basket once a week.
Nice and even erosion control, variety is the spice of life, etc.

While that would make for a interesting twist...
1) those extra tee pads cost money.
2) additional fees could make navigation much more confusing for visitors.

 

[Casey 1988]

Alternate cup positions on a ball golf green allows the surrounding grass to recover from foot traffic and also avoids creation of a four foot diameter low spot where everyone steps to retrieve their ball from the cup.

Alternate basket placements on a disc golf course reduces prolonged soil compaction and allows the unused pin placement area some time to recover. This is even more important on wooded courses where foot traffic first exposes then kills tree root systems. Further separation, if possible, is required when you consider that tree root systems are as large or larger than their canopy.

On older courses where baskets never move I call the surrounding area the "brown" rather than the "green" because there is nothing left but dirt, mud or exposed gravel, etc. around the basket.

Or in some areas with never move baskets they use a basket with the stand and use a big pad for the set pin thus right around the basket is still green after the pad that holds the baskets up, at least that still is for now how The Steamboat Park course is in Pierre (Pier) South Dakota. It is needed with rebar below to prevent basket from moving due to type of shifting soil in area, winter, and then needing righting every 5-10 years.

 

[Jugular]

I agree, a course should only have 1 basket location for each hole!...and furthermore I'm sick and tired of all the ice cream flavors!
Give me vanilla or give me death!

Ohhh, you big tease.

 

[wolfhaley]

Out of all them flavors and you choose vanilla?

 

[Jugular]

Out of all them flavors and you choose vanilla?

Yes please, two scoops.

 

[DavidSauls]

All courses should be designed so that every hole can be played forward and backward.

A tee-pad and pin collar at each end, move the basket once a week.
Nice and even erosion control, variety is the spice of life, etc.

That's a terrible idea. Many fairways are only good in one direction, and changing the design to permit reverse play would mean compromising the the best uses of the property.

I have a nearby course with lots of really cool fairways, that would suck if reversed. A big downhill shot would be a gruel uphill. A challenging short uphill shot would be a downhill putter-toss. Water is at the appropriate ends of the fairways. Fairways that end in steeply-sloped greens, would have no practical place for a teepad.

Reversible fairways make be a good idea where practical -- there's another course near me that makes good use of them, for 2 of its holes -- but certainly not for all courses.

 

[Billipo]

I recently posted a poll regarding multiple pins both moveable and permanent. My personal thoughts were coming from a designer perspective.

But most forum comments were from a players perspective. Seemed as if lots of comments were to make courses a changing experience for a particular player.

My conclusion was also similar thought as was pointed out in post #25.

Opinions may matter on area offerings. I am fortunate to have numerous courses to choose from, some for multiple skill levels, others geared for specific skill levels, but within a 5 to 40 minute drive options are great. I change my experience by going to a different course. Others may choose elsewhere.

I guess if we only had one course, I'd want more out of it too.

In general, I feel there is a best permanent location for a pin with a few exceptions...

Using moveable pins for...

Erosion control, two unique experiences of equal quality on select hole or holes, vary distance on wide open hole to develop players depth perception( keep same par)

I have used multiple permanent pins for courses with courses designed for multiple skill levels. I strongly feel this is an underutilized option.

Examples: one course White/Red - 3 holes with separate pins (clearly marked, always the same location) shared pins standard, short pins orange powder coating, long pins blue powder coating. Plus tee signage.

another, Blue/White/Red - Blue has 3 unique pins. Short and shared pins standard, long pins blue powder coating. Plus tee signage.

Making choice to use "other pin" could be players prerogative for variety, but designed course layout for specific pin location for specific skill.

Back to specifics of post...moveable pins might suck.

Maybe the issue with moveable pins is that they either create a mishmash of skill level holes on the course. Making players happy only on some holes often not the "best" individual hole experience.

 

[joecoin]

That's a terrible idea. Many fairways are only good in one direction, and changing the design to permit reverse play would mean compromising the the best uses of the property...

Well David, I'd have to say your course is just poorly designed. Just kidding.

How about "two way directional teepads"? One teepad for two distinct holes.

Basically two 18 hole courses with 18 tee pads. Only one course active at a time. Alternate pin placements weekly/monthly/quarterly?

The front of the pad is dependent on the pin placement. The walks between holes of the 1st iteration would be the fairways (or part of the fairways) for the 2nd iteration.

There's probably a geometric model that could be adopted to design the most efficient layout in terms of walking distance between any given two holes.

 

[joecoin]

While that would make for a interesting twist...
1) those extra tee pads cost money.
2) additional fees could make navigation much more confusing for visitors.

1) See new post #58
2) Why would there be additional fees? (I know, it's a Thai-poe) Again, see new post #58, no new tees involved.

 

[Cgkdisc]

How about "two way directional teepads"? One teepad for two distinct holes. Basically two 18 hole courses with 18 tee pads. Only one course active at a time. Alternate pin placements weekly/monthly/quarterly?

They did and may still do something like this on the Ft. Steilacoom course where, depending on the day's routing indicated on the signboard, a particular basket might be hole 3, 5 or 8 based on the direction the tee shot is coming from.