Form critique request

[disc-golf-neil]

YW!

Yes combo of that plus better coil and tension against the rear side at the peak of the backswing

Still trying to figure out the right cue / conceptualization of coming into the power pocket to fix my shoulder angle, any thoughts on this:



Increasing speed each time I test things out with the tech disc but still looks like shoulder is collapsing? and definitely leaning back too far as well.

 

[sidewinder22]

D. None of the above. Rotate your shoulder internally so your elbow goes up/out and loads the swing in behind the wrist to setup the slash/hammer out.

 

[Kennets]

SW. At what point should the internally rotation of the shoulder happen? From peak back swing and onwards?

I'm afraid of possible strain if done wrong?

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

 

[Brychanus]

SW. At what point should the internally rotation of the shoulder happen? From peak back swing and onwards?

I'm afraid of possible strain if done wrong?

Sorry for hijacking the thread.

These moves/this discussion usually help; start around 5:31

 

[disc-golf-neil]

D. None of the above. Rotate your shoulder internally so your elbow goes up/out and loads the swing in behind the wrist to setup the slash/hammer out.

I'll try more internal rotation. I already feel like I'm internally rotating so going more gets less comfortable but I still have a bit more left to play around with.

I've been delaying working on pronating into power pocket and supinating out (instead of maintaining supination) because it seems I shouldn't introduce additional complexity until I fix some of my other issues like collapsing shoulder.

 

[Brychanus]

I'll try more internal rotation. I already feel like I'm internally rotating so going more gets less comfortable but I still have a bit more left to play around with.

I've been delaying working on pronating into power pocket and supinating out (instead of maintaining supination) because it seems I shouldn't introduce additional complexity until I fix some of my other issues like collapsing shoulder.

The trick is that a collapsing shoulder is directly related to whether it is internally rotating properly heading into the hit/release, plus what's happening before and around that joint. Part of your issue is that you are jamming into and swinging over the top of your brace a bit, which is driving your shoulder skyward and contributing to the collapse.

Hammer work helped me simplify it. It also helped to mess with whether the disc wing was relaxed hanging down at the backswing peak heading into internal rotation directly out of that. I also briefly exaggerated the supination/external rotation of the shoulder heading back into the peak of the backswing like Proctor, which let me exaggerate it more coming back out into the swing (throw). I found Proctor's move a little rougher on my body overall but useful to fuss around with arm and shoulder stuff.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

How much more should I be internally rotating my shoulder because just keeping the elbow level with the wrist requires a decent amount of internal shoulder rotation already and it gets uncomfortable quickly going beyond that. I can rotate it so that a line from my wrist to elbow is 45 degrees compared to the flat ground, but it feels more strained, 10-20 degrees is much less strained but I'm still a little hesitant to try to be explosive into that rotation.

Also, it seems wrist above elbow is pretty common in the power pocket among pros? But some of that could be deceptive and due to other body angles such as if the chest is tilted towards the target it tilts the wrist higher without moving the arm.

 

[sidewinder22]

You seem to be looking at forearm relative to the ground instead of the body/shoulders. Your right shoulder is externally rotated so you elbow is down next to your body and disc goes wing up. Note how Simon's forearm is on plane with the shoulders and the shoulder is internally rotated so the elbow is up and out away from the body and the disc wing is flat.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

The trick is that a collapsing shoulder is directly related to whether it is internally rotating properly heading into the hit/release, plus what's happening before and around that joint. Part of your issue is that you are jamming into and swinging over the top of your brace a bit, which is driving your shoulder skyward and contributing to the collapse.

Hammer work helped me simplify it. It also helped to mess with whether the disc wing was relaxed hanging down at the backswing peak heading into internal rotation directly out of that. I also briefly exaggerated the supination/external rotation of the shoulder heading back into the peak of the backswing like Proctor, which let me exaggerate it more coming back out into the swing (throw). I found Proctor's move a little rougher on my body overall but useful to fuss around with arm and shoulder stuff.

Crazy how much more Eliezra exaggerates that wing angle on the reach back.

How is such a level reach back producing a launch angle much higher than level? Is it the lowering of the arm from higher on the chest to below the chest (10:47)?

Eagle seems to also reach back parallel to the ground often, which is weird since he advocates for low reach backs in his discmania video series about form. Is her off-arm move behind the body, like GG, also called a swim move?


[COLOR=var(--darkreader-text--text)][/COLOR]

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes Eli is basically doing the same swim move as GG.

I think you need to stop looking at the disc relative to the ground and focus on the disc relative to the body.

Note how Eagle starts his reachback low around navel high and then he drops his center down into he plant and the arm/disc raise only slightly to the top of the backswing. I teach in Door Frame Drill and Loading Bow & Arrow Drills to start around navel height.

 

[RowingBoats]

How is such a level reach back producing a launch angle much higher than level?

I think you still have an inaccurate conception of what 'level' reach back means in the disc golf swing. This is NOT a level reach back at all. That is clearly a powerful hyzer shes about to slam out there. The ground is not what you want to be referencing.

 

[Brychanus]

View attachment 332519View attachment 332520

Crazy how much more Eliezra exaggerates that wing angle on the reach back.

How is such a level reach back producing a launch angle much higher than level? Is it the lowering of the arm from higher on the chest to below the chest (10:47)?

Eagle seems to also reach back parallel to the ground often, which is weird since he advocates for low reach backs in his discmania video series about form. Is her off-arm move behind the body, like GG, also called a swim move?


[COLOR=var(--darkreader-text--text)]View attachment 332521[/COLOR]

My answer is basically the same as Sidewinder's and tracks w/ Rowing's.

When you are thinking about any sports move, consider how the entire body moves to generate power, and how the arm tracks with/follows the powerful parts of the body motion and momentum.

I like the details as much as anyone, but you really can miss the forest by staring at the trees.

Why is "arm tackling" discouraged in football?


Why do boxers work on their legs and core so much? Why is the guy on the first gif delivering more power ( F = M*V) with each punch than the second?

"What about throwing?" you might ask. Why do pitchers so much time conditioning their moves and body from the ground up? Why do coaches also focus so much on the posture and weight shift?


The arguments are all interesting, but people for whatever reason talk in circles and hang onto parts of them to their peril. I know you're trawling the internet looking for answers for free like pretty much everyone else. Don't fall into the sinkhole - think about how you would attack athletic forceful moves in anything else. Imagine what would happen if you jumped dance instructors every couple weeks not believing what each one was teaching you, or decided to work on your left pinky when they told you to pay attention to your feet.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

What do you guys think about these two footwork variations where the brace foot ends in the same position in both cases (back foot toes aligned with brace heel):

1. The brace step goes forward in a linear direction.
2. The brace step goes goes in a more diagonal direction.

At first thought #1 seems like a more efficient forward weight transfer but on second thought #2 seems like that diagonal force might align better with how the front hip wants to open?

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I think you still have an inaccurate conception of what 'level' reach back means in the disc golf swing. This is NOT a level reach back at all. That is clearly a powerful hyzer shes about to slam out there. The ground is not what you want to be referencing.

Even when when looking in relation to the body to me it still looks level in that it's straight across the chest with the arm at shoulder height. If she stood straight up without moving the arm it would still be straight across the chest. But I guess you would have to change the arm height when standing up vs leaning for a hyzer since leaning for a hyzer usually sets you up more for a higher launch angle and so you have to have a higher reach back?

To me low means the arm starts shoulder high (since it's attached there) but ends up lower than the chest so there is a diagonal angle to it instead of level.

 

[sidewinder22]

What do you guys think about these two footwork variations where the brace foot ends in the same position in both cases (back foot toes aligned with brace heel):

1. The brace step goes forward in a linear direction.
2. The brace step goes goes in a more diagonal direction.

At first thought #1 seems like a more efficient forward weight transfer but on second thought #2 seems like that diagonal force might align better with how the front hip wants to open?

1=GG
2=Simon
Both=Rear foot moves behind front foot

 

[disc-golf-neil]

1=GG
2=Simon
Both=Rear foot moves behind front foot

you don't see any reason to prefer one over the other besides what feels more natural for you?

 

[sidewinder22]

Anatomy definitely makes a difference, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all.

Wonder if makeagif will work:

https://makeagif.com/i/fi_-ke

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Anatomy definitely makes a difference, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all.

Wonder if makeagif will work:

https://makeagif.com/i/fi_-ke

On medium power and softer powered approach shots do you recommend angling the brace foot the same as on more powerful tea shots? 90 degrees or more closed.

I've noticed in some situations, like shorter distances stills. Some people seem to open the brace foot a bit more.

 

[sidewinder22]

On medium power and softer powered approach shots do you recommend angling the brace foot the same as on more powerful tea shots? 90 degrees or more closed.

I've noticed in some situations, like shorter distances stills. Some people seem to open the brace foot a bit more.

Open up more on shorter shots.

 

[GeezerGolfDFW]

Anatomy definitely makes a difference, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all.

Wonder if makeagif will work:

https://makeagif.com/i/fi_-ke

Anatomy makes all the difference. Yet, watching Simon and Gurthie from the back their form looks very similar and much simpler from the back. They appear to stride into the throw at a measured pace and use their front leg as a lever to throw around. And I wonder why I am not able to achieve the same power and control. Possibly because...

I am 66 years old and I will probably never again be able to move with the strength and flexibility of any of the younger players. I could have had a chance at moving like that 46 years ago. Has anyone written about how to adapt the mechanics of movement for an older or injured body? I was tall, still am, and no longer flexible like Simon. Once upon a time, I was, sort of at least, when I was in my twenties. Sigh!