Form critique request

[disc-golf-neil]

I would do the drill and post the video. Much faster ;-)

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Your feet are setup too far ahead of your hand. First step with right foot should be right under hand. Left step under elbow.
2. Your spine extends instead of flexes.
3. You plant front foot way too early/short.

 

[sidewinder22]

Could probably raise the arrow up 3-6 inches, looks a little low.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

1. Your feet are setup too far ahead of your hand. First step with right foot should be right under hand. Left step under elbow.
2. Your spine extends instead of flexes.
3. You plant front foot way too early/short.
View attachment 333485

Should be a bit better:


My back, especially lower has a habit of going into extension partly due to natural tendency and partly due to practicing sitting posture that doesn't have too much lower back flexion due to low back pain over the years, so I have to manually remind myself often to go into more flexion in the lower back before a run up for example, otherwise it will default to being extended a bit.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are setting up belt buckle high instead of navel or slighty higher. Your lower arm should be parallel to the ground in the setup. Your feet still look slightly ahead.

I would be scared to have that joint on the arrow, better to just use the bat like before and stride beyond the wall. You could stick a towel or something on the wall to prevent marking the wall. You want to put all your weight into it and move back and forth.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

You are setting up belt buckle high instead of navel or slighty higher. Your lower arm should be parallel to the ground in the setup. Your feet still look slightly ahead.

I would be scared to have that joint on the arrow, better to just use the bat like before and stride beyond the wall. You could stick a towel or something on the wall to prevent marking the wall. You want to put all your weight into it and move back and forth.

It's just hard to get a good camera angle if I'm disappearing behind the wall but it was hard to adjust the height with that extension on the wall so I had to just kind of go for it once I set it and hoped the height was correct.

But overall it seems like not any huge issues just some minor corrections now? I've felt a deep stretch as described so I think I'm not missing any major breakthroughs but just need to optimize more.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hard to tell because you kind pause mid stride and your front foot kind reaches ahead of your mass early so you lean back away instead leaning targetward more aggressively with front foot off ground.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Hard to tell because you kind pause mid stride and your front foot kind reaches ahead of your mass early so you lean back away instead leaning targetward more aggressively with front foot off ground.

I'll experiment around with it more. I was trying to exaggerate leading with the butt a bit to sink my weight deeper into it since that was providing a deep stretch feeling, but sinking into it too butt first does look like it results in more leaning back for me.

 

[Brychanus]

I'll experiment around with it more. I was trying to exaggerate leading with the butt a bit to sink my weight deeper into it since that was providing a deep stretch feeling, but sinking into it too butt first does look like it results in more leaning back for me.

If you're having trouble getting the right implement, you could also just go to Door Frame Drill.

I used a square brick pillar in my basement when learning it because if I put all ~250lbs of me through a pole on drywall or plaster it would have ruined my walls in my old house.

A lot of people who work on the drills don't realize that you're literally using your entire body mass against the frame or pole.

I needed SW and a couple more people to whack me upside the head to get the point because I had never done something similar before in BH direction.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

If you're having trouble getting the right implement, you could also just go to Door Frame Drill.

I used a square brick pillar in my basement when learning it because if I put all ~250lbs of me through a pole on drywall or plaster it would have ruined my walls in my old house.

A lot of people who work on the drills don't realize that you're literally using your entire body mass against the frame or pole.

I needed SW and a couple more people to whack me upside the head to get the point because I had never done something similar before in BH direction.

Yeah, I'll try that, I was just struggling to find good camera angles in this tiny apartment.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I found it easier to take the posture LtB trains and throw on hyzer/hyzerflip at first. Then you can use the "same" posture adjusted to each shot.

SW's image might have addressed what you meant by leaning-esque specifically & it's easier to critique you doing the drill (you should share the side and rear view), but I wanted to orient your attention to a couple mechanics that most people struggle with right about now. IMO the more control you develop over the following, the easier it gets to make more subtle and faster changes later.

Compare Eagle's power hyzerflips to the posture he teaches in the video. SW tends to stand more tall & relaxed, but he is still hinging at the hips and coiling back with sidebend to achieve the move. The depth of the hinge hip is related to the "forward lean" - basically, the deeper the hinge, the more the upper body looks like it's leaning. Some people hinge incorrectly and develop weird leans.

I have a lot of body mass through my core and shoulder line/chest. I was a curious cat so I played with other things, but I eventually conceded that SW was right (again) that I would find it easier to throw standing taller, which means I have less hip hinge depth, but it also keeps my mass centered and allows it to rotate faster and commit power through my leading shoulder when I plant. On the other hand, I and most people usually need to experiment with deeper movements past what was "ideal" for their body to know the difference between good and bad actions. Your move will look necessarily somewhat different due to your body type, but use the same posture principles. Trick for Load the Bow is you what to use it to learn the mechanics Eagle uses "retrofitted" to whatever is best for your body.

View attachment 333475


Also mess around with this clip SW shared with me a while back to get loose before you Load the Bow. Notice how Kevin hinges back at the hips to set up his drill move. You want to continue that loose move in the hip hinge as you "load the bow". If Kevin kept swinging his throwing arm all the way back away from the intended trajectory while stepping his plant leg forward, that's basically most of the way to Load the Bow or Door Frame Drill!

Should you coil with sidebend for all powerful drive angles (launch and hyzer / anhyzer) or mostly power hyzers?

I've been trying to look out more for side, bend while watching form, it might just be hard to see sometimes with the shirts, but it doesn't seem like it's always being done significantly on drives.

 

[Brychanus]

Should you coil with sidebend for all powerful drive angles (launch and hyzer / anhyzer) or mostly power hyzers?

I've been trying to look out more for side, bend while watching form, it might just be hard to see sometimes with the shirts, but it doesn't seem like it's always being done significantly on drives.

I now tend to think that it's just a fundamental part of high level athletic motions. You won't recruit the strongest sequence through the core without it and the leverage against the ground will tend to be weaker due to the overall way posture interacts with itself and the earth.

Some people tend to stand more tall or upright with less sidebend, but it's usually there and preserved for distance shots with slight/natural adjustments to the shot. I'm happy to help point it out if you have examples that you find hard to eyeball. Simon generally has awesome posture control and clearly preserves his sidebend in general (golf dude is exaggerating it in the "backhand" direction, look for the same piece of posture in Simon). The club and pitch are showing you the same but in FH/overhand direction.




Since I had zero relevant sports background I'll share this move series again because it helped me realize how sidebend was a fundamental part of forceful movements no matter what direction you're moving and whether you are throwing, swinging, punching, pulling, whatever. Do the moves a lot = less thinking = more profit.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

I now tend to think that it's just a fundamental part of high level athletic motions. You won't recruit the strongest sequence through the core without it and the leverage against the ground will tend to be weaker due to the overall way posture interacts with itself and the earth.

Some people tend to stand more tall or upright with less sidebend, but it's usually there and preserved for distance shots with slight/natural adjustments to the shot. I'm happy to help point it out if you have examples that you find hard to eyeball. Simon generally has awesome posture control and clearly preserves his sidebend in general (golf dude is exaggerating it in the "backhand" direction, look for the same piece of posture in Simon). The club and pitch are showing you the same but in FH/overhand direction.

View attachment 334941


Since I had zero relevant sports background I'll share this move series again because it helped me realize how sidebend was a fundamental part of forceful movements no matter what direction you're moving and whether you are throwing, swinging, punching, pulling, whatever. Do the moves a lot = less thinking = more profit.

Awesome, thanks. That pic of Simon helps a lot. I'm still getting used to what to look at as a proxy for other things, like the shoulder tilt as a proxy for side bend as you show here, I was too focused on the actual side trying to see if it was there but it's hard to see with the shirts.

I don't throw max power anhyzers often, so it's super helpful to see the side bend in this picture because just thinking back to how it feels for me to throw anhyzer, it feels unnaturally straight-standing since I don't do it super often, so I'd assume I side bend the least on hard anhyzer throws because of that.

I'll start more aggressively working on getting side bend into muscle memory with shadow coils and warmups.

Speaking of anhyzers, I just broke 450 ft on flat ground with a flex shot! I don't throw them often since there's usually not enough room, but it seems easier to get consistent distance whereas with hyzers that flip and hold the turn it seems more delicate, at least maybe until I have the power to flip more stable stuff that will more reliable come out of it.

Still lots of advice to work on, so 500 should be possible. I still have a bad habit of leaning back too much during the reach back but your comment elsewhere about emphasis on changing direction and that gif of Paige I think will help. I was worried about bracing too aggressively and being uncontrolled or injury-prone but thinking about the lateral direction changes I do in racket sports makes me more confident to do it and press harder off the back leg, it was definitely helping in a recent practice session my back leg was bending more and coming off the ground more naturally.



I was also testing (after this vid) trying to do more scapular protraction after coming into the power pocket to get more arm curl naturally and it seemed to help. I tend to come out of the power pocket from the left pec as soon as I start throwing hard and never get deep but sometimes it almost looks like some people do 2 motions as they pull into the power pocket: coming close to the left pec, then scapular protraction to give space for the disc to come more across the chest and curl up deeper. Gonna try testing this more thoroughly too.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. You are doing a fake wide rail and sawing off the backswing. Reachback straight inline with trajectory.

2. Your rear elbow is flying way out there. Keep elbow tighter in, let the lower arm swing around.

3. In side view you can see how much your elbow/disc moves back in backswing, instead of staying more in place while body shifts forward - door frame/bow arrow.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

1. You are doing a fake wide rail and sawing off the backswing. Reachback straight inline with trajectory.

2. Your rear elbow is flying way out there. Keep elbow tighter in, let the lower arm swing around.

3. In side view you can see how much your elbow/disc moves back in backswing, instead of staying more in place while body shifts forward - door frame/bow arrow.
View attachment 335029

I remember #2 from before but I feel like I need to prioritize other issues more at the moment, or find a way to work on that without it drawing too much attention to where other things worsen.

For #1, I understand mechanically what you are saying to do but would like some clarification on the terms. If I reach back inline with trajectory that would not be a true wide rail, right? So then, if I wanted to also test out a true wide rail, what would I need to adjust?

Also, what software do you use for the video analysis and to draw on?

 

[sidewinder22]

I remember #2 from before but I feel like I need to prioritize other issues more at the moment, or find a way to work on that without it drawing too much attention to where other things worsen.

For #1, I understand mechanically what you are saying to do but would like some clarification on the terms. If I reach back inline with trajectory that would not be a true wide rail, right? So then, if I wanted to also test out a true wide rail, what would I need to adjust?

Also, what software do you use for the video analysis and to draw on?

It's still a wide rail as the body is out of the way relative to trajectory. The only thing that really matters is a wide upper arm angle, so if the shoulders are turned back enough you can reachback straight inline to trajectory.

The video analysis software is Anaylzr.
Erik B. at 5 Simple Keys might still be giving disc golfers discounts on the software. He used to be on here and was a student of mine.

5sk.com

5sk.com

 

[disc-golf-neil]

Reachback straight inline with trajectory.

What about degrees of torso rotation during coil when comparing a comfort power drive vs max power and how that could affect the reachback alignment? Do you recommend more torso rotation during coiling on max power vs comfort power?

For example, if you plant perpendicular to initial intended trajectory, and the shoulder angle is 90 degrees during reach back, this means 90 degrees of torso rotation will align the reachback with the trajectory. But then if you were going for max power, you might coil a bit more than 90 degrees which would change the reachback alignment unless something else is also adjusted.

 

[sidewinder22]

It is like a finger pointing to the moon.

 

[disc-golf-neil]

It is like a finger pointing to the moon.

Not sure what you mean by this.

 

[Brychanus]

Not sure what you mean by this.

Full quote: "It's like a finger pointing away to the moon. Don't concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory." -Bruce Lee

Eye on the prize/coaching points.